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Alice Maud James born 1872 Pembroke Dock married Isaac Witt.

Isaac died in 1912 and Alice Maud, his wife, remarried to Thomas Caulder in 1922:

They are on the electoral roll 1927 living at 44 Plough Road, Wandsworth with Ernest Frank Witt.

I am sooooo confused.

So Alice Maud and Isaac Witt had Ernest Frank Witt? Who had a son called Ernest Henry Albert Witt? They all lived in London.

Yes that's correct, Natasha.

Isaac's a bit of a mystery too.

Per 1911 census posted earlier, and also 1901 (posted below) Isaac was born in Lyndhurst, Hants, c1849.

This is the only Isaac Witt birth in the right reg district, but 8 years too early
Births Mar 1841 (>99%)
Witt Isaac New Forest 8 190

There are a couple of Isaac Witt births in Hampshire in 1849, but wrong district (Fordingbridge):


Isaac Witt
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Isaac Witt
Age: 52
Estimated birth year: abt 1849
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Spouse: Alice Witt
Birth Place: Lyndhurst, Hampshire, England
Civil Parish: Battersea
Ecclesiastical parish: St Michael Wandsworth Common
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Wandsworth
Sub-registration district: Southwest Battersea
ED, institution, or vessel: 27
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 459
Folio: 70
Page Number: 33
Household schedule number: 196
Household Members:
Name Age
Isaac Witt 52
Alice Witt 28


I don't see him before 1901.

Yes!

This is Ernest Frank's mum after she remarried (mistranscribed).

1939:

Coulder Household (3 People) 44 Plough Road , Battersea, London, England

Thomas Coulder 23 Apr 1864 Male Tailor Married 45 1
Alice (M) Casslder 11 Jul 1867 Female Unpaid Domestic D Married
William C James 04 Nov 1866 Male Barman Widowed

And this is Alice Maud's baptism (the date matches the 1939 register- although she made herself a little older, probably as her husband was older than her):

First name(s) ALICE MAUD
Last name JAMES
Birth year 1872
Birth day 11
Birth month Jul
Baptism year 1872
Baptism day 11
Baptism month Aug
Place PEMBROKE DOCK, GARRISON
Mother's first name(s) Elizabeth
Father's first name(s) Henry
County Pembrokeshire
Country Wales

I wonder if Isaac also adjusted his age downward, because of marrying a much younger wife?!

On his death his birth is c 1847:

First name(s) ISAAC
Last name WITT
Gender Male
Birth year 1847
Age 65
Death quarter 1
Death year 1912
District WANDSWORTH
County London
Volume 1D Page 669

Thank you - you lot have the patience of saints!! Haha.

Okay will add Isaac and Alice to the tree. I did find on another website Ernest Frank Witt 1906 with Isaac and Alice as his parents and Isaac parents are Stephen Witt and Rose Emma Warner.

That's a bit age gap between Alice and Isaac! Wow.

And Alice remarried Thomas but who is living with them? William C James 04 Nov 1866 Male Barman Widowed?

Ernest Frank Witt in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Name: Ernest Frank Witt
Year: 1938
County or Borough: Wandsworth
Ward or Division/Constituency: Battersea
Street address: 64 Henley Street

With Lily May Elizabeth Witt

This looks to be Isaac in 1891 (he was a Gardener on 1901 & 1911)

Name: Isaac Witt
Age: 48
Estimated birth year: abt 1843
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Minstead, Hampshire, England
Civil Parish: Clapham
Ecclesiastical parish: Ascension
Town: Clapham
County/Island: London
strict: Wandsworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 40
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 444 Folio: 122 Page Number: 4
Household Members:
Name Age
Isaac Witt 48 Gardener

If that's correct,(ie - that Stephen and Rose Emma were his parents) then Isaac was indeed born 1841, as per the New Forest birth record posted earlier, which includes Lyndhurst

BUT this census says he was born in Southampton (still, that's just beside Lyndhurst).


Stephen Witt
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Stephen Witt
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1821
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Rose E Witt
Gender: Male
Where born: Breamore, Hampshire, England
Civil Parish: Southampton All Saints
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
Town: Southampton
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England
Registration district: Southampton
Sub-registration district: Southampton
ED, institution, or vessel: 2a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 196
Piece: 1669
Folio: 707
Page Number: 53
Household Members:
Name Age
Stephen Witt 30
Rose E Witt 30
Henry Witt 2
Isaac Witt 3 Mo
Thomas Dowling 28
Caroline Dowling 26
Emily Dowling 4
Mary Ingram 12

I think that William James is probably Alice's brother or a relation of Alice (remember Alice's maiden name was James)

My goodnesss Isaac!! How many times does someone want to changed their age?! Lol!

I'm not sure that record for Isaac is correct with parents Stephen and Rose. Please don't copy anyone elses tree. Work backwards from records.

To find out which is the correct Isaac you will need to purchase his marriage certificate to Alice M James.

As he was older than Alice he may have been married before.

There is also this Isaac which could fit with the 1891 census where he is listed as born in Minstead- so you see, you will need the marriage cert to confirm:

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Wood Side, Minestead, New Forest, Hampshire, England
Isaac Witt Male 40 1801 Hampshire, England
Mary Witt Female 28 1813 Hampshire, England
Elizabeth Witt Female 7 1834 Hampshire, England
Charlotte Witt Female 6 1835 Hampshire, England
David Witt Male 2 1839 Hampshire, England
Isaac Witt Male 0 1841 Hampshire, England

I've found this...

Name: Alice Maud James
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 8 Oct 1890
Baptism Place: Saint Paul's, Chatham, Kent, England
Father: Henry Charles James
Mother: Louisa
FHL Film Number: 1473668
Reference ID: 234

Could that be any relevance? She would have been a bit older when baptised?

I already posted the baptism for Alice Maud James above (remember on the 1911 census she is listed as being born Pembroke Dock):

again:
name(s) ALICE MAUD JAMES
Birth 11 July 1872
Baptism year 1872
Baptism day 11
Baptism month Aug
Place PEMBROKE DOCK, GARRISON
Mother's first name(s) Elizabeth
Father's first name(s) Henry (Occ: private)
Abode: Defencible? Barracks
County Pembrokeshire
Country Wales

I am not seeing Alice Maud in any census records with parents Henry and Elizabeth yet.

Found another tree matching what we've said except Alice's parents were Elizabeth and William Henry James.

Don't look at other peoples' trees, they might or might NOT be correct!! Look at the records available first- otherwise you get sidetracked.

I suspect this is Alice with her Parents and siblings in 1881 (her father was a private soldier on her baptism):

1881:
House name The Barracks
Street Kingsthorpe Road
Parish Northampton St Sepulchre
County Northamptonshire
Registration district Northampton
Archive reference RG11
Piece number 1550 Folio 143 Page 7

Henry James 38 Private, Salsbury Wilts
Elizabeth James 36 Calstock, Cornwall
William Charles James 13 born at sea
Alice Maude James 7 Newport, Wales
William Henry James 2 Northampton
----------------------------------------

The William Charles James listed above is likely the brother with her in 1939