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I am looking through my mothers fathers side of the family and I just wondered why a surname might be changed slightly?

My grandfather is Ernest Henry Albert Witt and his father is Ernest Frank Witt. But what I'm curious about is that Ernest Frank is the only person in his family with the surname Witt and the rest have Witts as their surname. His father is John Witts and then all the children of John Witts has Witts as their surname. I currently haven't done any children of the male Witts except Ernest Frank Witt because he's my great grandfather. And Witt with no S followed down the line so my family are still Witt with no s.

My mum reckons it was possibly because Witts was Jewish so they changed their names but taking off the S surely isn't going to do a lot?

Wondered if anyone could shed any light on this please? :-D

Your mother's theory seems as good as any! Or perhaps he just preferred the name without an "s".

Your post's a little confusing, but presumably he was born Witts, and then changed it later?

Is this the family?:


Ernest James Frank Witts
in the 1911 England Census

Name: Ernest James Frank Witts
Age in 1911: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1903
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Islington
Civil Parish: Shoreditch
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 38 Bacchus Walk, Hoxton N E
Occupation: SCHOOL
Registration district: Shoreditch
Registration District Number: 16
Sub-registration district: Shoreditch South
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Piece: 1335
Household Members:
Name Age
John Charles Witts 54
Florence Ellen Witts 51
Mabel Hannah Witts 18
Harry Witts 16
Emily Edith Witts 12
Alice Maud Witts 13
Ernest James Frank Witts 8

If that's the right family, he also died as Witts:

Ernest J F Witts
in the England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Ernest J F Witts
Birth Date: abt 1903
Date of Registration: Dec 1949
Age at Death: 46
Registration district: Wood Green
Inferred County: Middlesex
Volume: 5f
Page: 433

Perhaps I've got the wrong family?



There's also an Ernest Frank Witt, but he's not the son of a John:

Ernest Frank Witt
in the Surrey, England, Regimental Rolls, 1914-1947
Name: Ernest Frank Witt
Birth Year: abt 1904
Birth Place: Battersea, London, Surrey
Event Date: 30 Aug 1922
Event Place: Kingston-on-Thames
Age: 18
Regiment Number: 6135911
Regiment: East Surrey

Mother of above is named as Maud, which matches 1911 below.


Ernest Frank Witt
in the England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: Ernest Frank Witt
Registration Year: 1906
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: Wandsworth
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 606


????

Ernest Frank Witt
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Ernest Frank Witt
Age in 1911: 5
Estimated birth year: abt 1906
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: London, United Kingdom
Civil Parish: Wandsworth
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: Fairview Cottage, Fairview Place, Brixton Hill S W
Registration district: Wandsworth
Registration District Number: 26
Sub-registration district: Streatham
ED, institution, or vessel: 43
Piece: 2328
Household Members:
Name Age
Isaac Witt 62
Alice Maud Witt 39
Ernest Frank Witt 5

Hi Natasha

When and where was Ernest Frank Witt born?

When and where was John Witts born?

This looks to be the parents of Ernest H A Witt

1939:
Witt Household (3 People) 68 Henley Street , Battersea, London, England

Ernest F Witt 06 Feb 1906 Male Tram Driver L P T B Married
Lily Mary E Witt 31 Jan 1905 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married
One closed record
Emily A Woodworth 20 Feb 1901 Female Domestic Servant Single

Ernest James Witts is the brother is Ernest Frank Witt. I am not really following Ernest James. I am following his brother Ernest Frank Witt (no s.)

Ernest James brother Ernest Frank had one son Ernest Henry Albert Witt.

Ernest HA Witt was born Witt with no S. Unsure about Ernest Frank.

Unsure where Ernest Frank was born exactly.

Ernest Henry Albert's birth ???

Births Jun 1932 (>99%)
Witt Ernest H A Mallows Battersea 1d 586


therefore parents' marriage:

Marriages Jun 1930 (>99%)
Mallows Lily M E Witt Battersea 1d 946
WITT Ernest F Mallows Battersea 1d 946

It goes

John Witts and Lydia

Many children including John Witts who married Florence

They had many children including Ernest Frank WITT who is my great grandfather.

Who had a son called Ernest HA Witt my grandad.


---------

Ernest James Witts had an S and Ernest Frank Witt (my great grandad) was the only child without the S.

And according to the 1939 Ernest Frank Witt was born 1906

Yes Ernest HA Witt is the child of Lily Mallows and Ernest Frank Witt.

Ernest Frank Witt is the son of John Witts and Florence Domminey.

There is an Alice Maud but she is Ernest Franks sister and she married Frank Harris King.

There is no Issac Witt apparently. Some distant relative already researched this whole side of the family so I've got his tree and everything but I was confused as to why the name changed suddenly.

Well , there's no sign of a child named Ernest Frank in the 1911 I posted at the beginning (the one with Ernest J F).

Nor is he with the family in 1901:

Mabel Hannah Witts
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Mabel Hannah Witts
Age: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1893
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Father: John Witts
Mother: Florence Witts
Birth Place: Stoke Newington, London, England
Civil Parish: Islington
Ecclesiastical parish: St James the Apostle
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Islington
Sub-registration district: Islington, South-East
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 188
Folio: 78
Page Number: 41
Household schedule number: 185
Household Members:
Name Age
John Witts 44
Florence Witts 41
Florence Ellen Witts 19
Lydia Elizabeth Witts 14
John Charles Witts 11
Mabel Hannah Witts 8
Harry Witts 6
Alice Maud Witts 3
Emily Edith Witts 2


Nor in 1881:

John Charles Witts
in the 1881 England Census
Name: John Charles Witts
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1857
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Florence E. Witts
Gender: Male
Where born: Shoreditch, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St Leonard
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 11 Witchampton Street
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Leather Gilder
Registration district: Shoreditch
Sub registration district: Hoxton New Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 389
Folio: 33
Page Number: 59
Household Members:
Name Age
John Charles Witts 24
Florence E. Witts 21
William J. Witts


I can't see them so far in 1891, so unless he's on that census, he must have been born after 1911,though I would have thought Florence would have been too old by then.

It's possible that the tree you've inherited could be wrong

This birth matches the 1939 register (which you've confirmed as the correct parents of your Grandad):

First name(s) ERNEST FRANK
Last name WITT
Birth year 1906
Birth quarter 1
District WANDSWORTH
County London
Country England
Volume 1D Page 606
--------------------------------------------------

This 1911 matches the birth:

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Fair View Cottage Fair View Place Brixton Hill S W, Wandsworth Borough, London, England

Isaac Witt Head Married Male Jobbing Gardner 62 1849 Lyndhurst Hants
Alice Maud Witt Wife Married Female - 39 1872 Wale St Pembroke Dock
Ernest Frank Witt Son - Male - 5 1906 Battersea London

I need a lie down!

Me too!!

:-D

Natasha- I think you need to start your own tree. Don't rely on information from other peoples' trees.

Records are a lot easier to follow than a few years ago. Lots of people made more mistakes in the past when compiling their trees.

I agree with AQ - your tree's wrong.

This is the marriage of the parents of the Ernest Frank Witt who was born in 1906, and who is presumably the one in the 1939 record:

Marriages Sep 1895 (>99%)
James Alice Maude Wandsworth 1d 1004
Witt Isaac Wandsworth 1d 1004


As already said, there is no sign of an Ernest Frank with the family in 1911 (John & Florence's family) - nor earlier (unless somehow he's on the 1891, which I haven't looked for yet, and not on any other census.) Or if he was born after 1911, which seems unlikely.


Also, although not impossible, it seems unlikely that they would name two sons Ernest.

Oh definitely possibly some info is wrong but we know for a fact there is my grandfather Ernest HA Witt with no S as an only child, his father Ernest Frank Witt. and mother Lily Mallows.

So confusing! I had started my tree going back but then saw this familys tree so deleted my info thinking it was wrong!

Do you have Ernest F and Lily's marriage cert (posted earlier), to be sure of EF's father's name?

The only Ernest F Witt born in London (per Freebmd) is the one born in 1906, son of Isaac and Alice Maud.


There's an Ernest Frank Witts born in Wales, but presumably that's not him.

Births Sep 1908 (>99%)
Witts Ernest Frank Pontypridd 11a 552

Haha, the man who did the tree just rang - it's all wrong! He never even noticed the Witts became Witt so we don't believe it is correct at all. Of course Ernest Frank Witt is correct as he is my great grandfather but I think you guys are right in saying his mother was Alice Maud and father was Isaac Witt. So will follow that road instead and delete everything. I thought it was those two in the first place but then I deleted it all because I thought this man was correct but he's not so attempted number three!!