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It pays to always look at the image of a census ............... in the 1861 Census, Thomas Latta is living in the same house as Richard and Cetherine Leatherbarrow, with two sons

1861 Census

Name: Richard Leatherbarrow
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: 1838
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Catherine Leatherbarrow
Gender: Male
Where born: Salford, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Salford
Ecclesiastical parish: St Phillip
Town: Salford
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Salford
Sub-registration district: Regent Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 12

Household schedule number: 57
Piece: 2921
Folio: 53
Page Number: 8

Richard Leatherbarrow 23 Boot Maker
Catherine Leatherbarrow 25 b.ca 1836, Liverpool



Name: Thomas Latta
Age: 55
Estimated birth year: 1806
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland
Civil Parish: Salford
Ecclesiastical parish: St Phillip
Town: Salford
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Salford
Sub-registration district: Regent Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 12

Household schedule number: 58
Piece: 2921
Folio: 53
Page Number: 8

Thomas Latta 55 b.ca 1806, Ireland, Widower, Shoe Maker
Frank Latta 17 b.ca 1844, Ireland, Baker
Robert Latta 14 b.ca 1847, Ireland, Iron Moulder
John Dabler 20 Lodger
Samuel Whiteman 21 Lodger
Alexander Nigbor 60

Address:- 25 Middlewood St

Surely Dinah cannot be the daughter of Richard Leatherbarrow and Catherine Latta as Dinah's birth predates their marriage


The interesting thing about the 1851 Census for Catherine Latta is that she is the ONLY person shown as born in Liverpool ........ father (widower) and younger siblings are all shown as born in Ireland.

It raises the interesting question of whether father (and ?mother) moved to Liverpool where Catherine was born and then moved right back to iIeland to have the second and subsequent children.

don't forget that "son-in-law" was a very common usage for "stepson" back in those days.

Granted the usage of that meaning of "son-in-law" had largely disappeared by the 1880s, but it could still have been an acceptable term.


So, it might not have been a "mistake" by the census taker, but the deliberate term used by whoever gave him the information.

Just thinking aloud re the Leatherbarrows:

safc posted the 1871, when the YOB of both Richard and Catherine was given as 1817 (and the image clearly says they were aged 54) - and Catherine was born Ireland.
Mary posted the 1881 (but called it 1891) , when their YOB was 1938, and Catherine was born Liverpool.

1861 agrees with 1881, with YOB a couple of years out.

Catherine Leatherbarrow
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Catherine Leatherbarrow
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: 1836
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Richard Leatherbarrow
Gender: Female
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Salford
Ecclesiastical parish: St Phillip
Town: Salford
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Salford
Sub-registration district: Regent Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 57
Piece: 2921
Folio: 53
Page Number: 8
Household Members:
Name Age
Richard Leatherbarrow 23
Catherine Leatherbarrow 25

As does 1851 when Richard is with his parents and siblings (also some visitors named Marsh whom I haven't copied):

Richard Letherbarrow
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Richard Letherbarrow
Age: 13
Estimated birth year: abt 1838
Relation: Son
Father's name: Thomas Letherbarrow
Mother's name: Sarah Ann Letherbarrow
Gender: Male
Where born: Salford, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: Trinity Church
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Salford
Sub-registration district: Regent Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 01b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 13
Piece: 2224
Folio: 33
Page Number: 3
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Letherbarrow 39
Sarah Ann Letherbarrow 34
Richard Letherbarrow 13
Ellen Letherbarrow 11
William Lethebarrow 7
Thomas Lethebarrow 1
Hannah Lethebarrow 3

Alice seems to have lived with the Leatherbarrows rather than her parents .
In 1881 she's listed as "servant".

In 1871 it says James is son-in-law to Richard. Clearly not literally, if Dinah's surname was Smith. So it should mean he was Richard's step-son.
But Catherine and Richard were both born c1838, so Catherine would be far too young for James to be her son, and Richard would also be far too young to have fathered him with someone else. They were only children themselves when James was born.

So I suspect that "son-in-law" re James in 1881 is another mistake by the census-taker, along with the wildly wrong ages for Richard and Catherine, and Catherine's wrong POB.
Probably James and Dinah were just lodgers or visitors, and no relation at all.

1861 21,liverpool Street Regent Rd D24>4
Head David turner 1820 Salford
James Atkinson 20 Salford Apprentice Bootmaker.

Maryb.

Many thanks Chris Ho ....Its a lot to take in, Thank you to everyone... :-) :-) <3

Mary thank you ..I was going to pack it in with this leatherbarrow lot but the info you have found is very interesting :-) and the confirmation of Alice ann :-)

WOW :-) Sylvia thank you :-)
I can't work the leatherbarrow's out. I know there is a james and Dinah and a one and a half year old daughter Alice ann (of whome I can't find anything with these parents). a marriage certificate would make it that much easier..it even got me thinking that james had been married before and Dinah was his second marriage after all there is a good ten yrs age gap between them both :-S :-S

http://www.lattafamilyorigins.org/EngFemaleMarrs1837-1950.html

(according to above, Father of Catherine Latta, was Thomas)


Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1859

LEATHERBARROW Richard LATTA Catherine Salford St Simon Salford C27/3/52

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/index.php

Chris :)

(so Dinah is Sister of William, query below, would think less stressful to get a Birth Cert. and make sure you have correct Surname for Dinah!)

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1355040

Chris :)

(reference from Mary above)

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1914

ATKINSON Alice A MOORE Ernest Hulme, St. Mark Manchester 5/7/442


Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1893

ATKINSON Dinah 40 Chorlton-on-Medlock Archives+, Manchester Central Library
CHO

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1851

SMITH Dinah Elizabeth Hulme Archives+, Manchester Central Library

Alice Ann Atkinson born Salford Oct 1869.
With parents 1871. and the leatherbarrow family

1881 4,Clowes Street Regent Road Salford. D1 >22
Richard leatherbarrow 43
Catherine 43 Liverpool. Nee Latta married 1859.
Alice Ann Aarison 11 born Salford a servant view original and it says Atkinson

?? Alice Ann Atkinson spinster of 18,Edge street daughter of James a deceased shoemaker married Ernest Moore a widow 26/12/1914.

Maryb.

I've found 4 other Atkinson baptisms on lancs opc ..... but no mmn :-(

Baptism: 16 Sep 1877 St Bartholomew, Salford, Lancashire, England
William Atkinson - [Child] of James Atkinson & Dinah Elizabeth
Born: 3 Mar 1877
Abode: 61 Melbourne Street
Occupation: Shoemaker
Baptised by: G. W. Petherick
Source: LDS Film 1786460


Baptism: 2 Oct 1881 St Bartholomew, Salford, Lancashire, England
Dinah Elizabeth Atkinson - [Child] of James Atkinson & Dinah
Born: 21 Jun 1881
Abode: 24 Mary St. Phoebe Street
Occupation: Shoe Maker
Baptised by: Joseph Horrocks
Register: Baptisms 1881 - 1884, Page 24, Entry 188
Source: LDS Film 1786460


Baptism: 19 Mar 1884 St Clement, Salford, Lancashire, England
William Atkinson - [Child] of James Atkinson & Dinah
Born: 21 Jul 1883
Abode: 28 Hyde Street
Occupation: Shoemaker
Notes: Chd. St B's. Aug. '83
Baptised by: C. V. Merriman
Register: Baptisms 1883 - 1887, Page 18, Entry 1777
Source: LDS Film 1786422


Baptism: 26 Jan 1887 St Bartholomew, Salford, Lancashire, England
Sarah Elizabeth Atkinson - [Child] of James Atkinson & Dinah
Born: 20 Dec 1886
Abode: 104 Bigland St.
Occupation: Shoe Maker
Baptised by: G. W. Petherick
Register: Baptisms 1886 - 1889, Page 54, Entry 593
Source: LDS Film 1786461


there don't seem to be any more baptisms for their children on that site.


another baptism on ancestry .........

England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Name: Bertha Atkinson
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 2 Sep 1885
Baptism Place: St. Bartholomew, Salford, Lancashire, England
Father: James Atkinson
Mother: Dinah
FHL Film Number: 1786461
Reference ID: item 2 p 114


William born 1877 must have died as there is a second William baptised in 1884, but I cannot find a definitive burial record for him

Thank you very much Sylvia, very much appreciated :-)

George's baptism is on lancsopc ............. but doesn't give mmn


Baptism: 30 Mar 1879 St Bartholomew, Salford, Lancashire, England
George Atkinson - [Child] of James Atkinson & Dinah
Born: 7 Feb 1878
Abode: 38 Tamworth Street
Occupation: Shoe Maker
Baptised by: G. W. Petherick
Source: LDS Film 1786460

Thanks Pam

Births are listed on Lancashire BMD website but mother's name not included.

AustinQ...im'e assuming that her maiden name is smith :-S

Yes Malyon that 1861 census is what I have

malyon yes I am thinking this is now a possibility
Here's another Brick in the wall: John Smith married Elizabeth crook 27th june 1875 they state on the 1911 census that have five children Theses are the baptism's which I have found :john smith 1878 harpurhey.Ann smith 1880 Harpurhey.William smith 1882 harpurhey.Nellie 1883.Harpurhey.and May1894 .But on the 1891 census there is also a Elizabeth smith born 1890 and james henry smith born 1877 :-S :-S
VERY BAFFLED

Do you have any birth certificates of Dinah's children to confirm her maiden name?

Dinah in 1861 census




Dinah E Smith

England and Wales Census, 1861

Name Dinah E Smith
County Lancashire
Event Type Census
Event Date 1861
Event Place Hulme, Lancashire, England
Ecclesiastical Parish St Pauls
Registration District Chorlton
Residence Note Clayburn Street
Gender Female
Age 9
Marital Status Unmarried
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Birth Year (Estimated) 1852
Birthplace Manchester,
Page Number 46
Registration Number RG09
Piece/Folio 2898 / 53
Affiliate Record Type Household



Household

Role

Gender

Age

Birthplace

Henry Smith Head M 37 Lepton Cromer, Yorkshire
Ann Smith Wife F 37 Lepton Cromer, Yorkshire
Dinah E Smith Daughter F 9 Manchester,
John Smith Son M 7 Manchester,
William Smith Son M 5 Manchester,
James Smith Son M 2 Mancheste