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Find My Past Elizabeth...

Chris :)

I'm not seeing Harriet that Dea found Marriage for 1893, on 1881, or Elizabeth Owen (Sister) who is witness to that Marriage, she Marries William Alfred Bottomley 1902 (easy up to 1939 Register)

Below is William Owen, with John (the one born a year before Marriage)

1881 (FMP)
Isaac Williamson Head Married Male 62 1819 Shoe Maker Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, England
Janet Williamson Wife Married Female 62 1819 - Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, England
William Owens Son Widower Male 32 1849 Painter Hull, Yorkshire, England
John T Johnson Son Single Male 10 1871 Scholar Hull, Yorkshire, England
William Jones Lodger Single Male 34 1847 Shoe Maker Boston, Lincolnshire, England
42, Naylors Row, Southcoates, Sculcoates, Yorkshire


1891 (FMP)
William Owen Head Widower Male 43 1848 Painter Hull, Yorkshire, England
John Williams Place, Holderness Road, Southcoates, Sculcoates


1901 (FMP)
Rose A Mills Head Widow Female 68 1833 - Hull, Yorkshire, England
William Owen Lodger Widower Male 53 1848 Painter Hull, Yorkshire, England
7, Nornabell Street Wilsons Terrace, Kingston upon Hull, Sculcoates


(so somewhere 1881, 1891 should be children!. All puzzling, to say the least, lol)


Yorkshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1847

OWEN James WHITE Jane St Marks Hull HMK/1/128

(as above are on 1851 with a William, did wonder if they were Parents, and Jane the Williamson on 1881)

Oooo so much information thank you!!

I'm loving this

Can anyone tell me what the abbreviation FMP means? I see it cropping up from time to time

I'll give it a try and let you know

Would have thought that Charles Owen 1931 Grimsby Death Cert. posted below, would be worth a try...

Chris :)

Edits (just to go back on Charles, looking round, Maria Owen Death 1879 Hull. 1881 William Owen (Owens FMP) Widower, has a Son John T. Johnson, in household of Isaac Williamson. 1891 William Owen, Widower, Painter. Ties in with Marriage Dea posted earlier, where William was a Painter)

(But, Charles and Harriet not with William 1881 or 1891, wondered as Maria came from Lincs. if there was a 'connection' somewhere to 1911)

(1911 Hull John Thomas Johnson, Trawl Fisherman, married with children, daughter Maria. Marriage 1893 Mary Ann Roberts)


Births Mar 1870 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------
Johnson John Thomas Hull 9d 229 (fits with 1881)


Marriages Dec 1871 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------
JOHNSON Maria Hull 9d 509
Owen William Hull 9d 509


1871 FMP, as below. Hull
Maria Johnson Niece (of John and Harriet Carrick) - Female 19 1852 - Lincolnshire, England
William Owen Boarder (Painter) - Male 24 1847 - Yorkshire, England


Yorkshire Death indexes for the years: 1879

OWEN Maria 28 Drypool Hull DRY/16/6


28 February 1893 - Hull Daily Mail - Hull, East Riding of Yorkshire,

THIS DAY'S POLICE.
Robbing his Father Charles Owen, a young man, was charged on remand with stealing articles of clothing, valued at £6, from the house 16, Marfleet Terrace, Craven-street, the property of William Owen, his father...(Prisoner said he was drunk at the time)

Oooo my!! A thief eh!
Crikey no wonder there was no family anecdotes about Charles.
Thank you all again for your help - it's so appreciated
I'll keep searching and keep you updated
Enjoy the sunshine
Elizabeth

Thanks for updating us re the child's certificate- so a little mystery solved! As a father wasn't listed it's unlikely that Charles was the father. I'd presume that he and Elsie had split up before the 1911 census.
--------------------------------------

Yorkshire Post and Leeds Intelligencer - Thursday 05 September 1929

Charles Owen (54), fisherman, was sentenced at Grimsby yesterday to 3 months hard labour for stealing £29 from Arthur Schubert, at whose house he had lodged. Owen lost the money in gambling.
----------------------------

Possible death?

Name: Charles Owen
Birth Date: abt 1876
Date of Registration: Jun 1931
Age at Death: 55
Registration district: Grimsby
Inferred County: Lincolnshire
Volume: 7a Page: 726

(apologies there then, as said, hadn't read all through, thought might just be Fisherman, rather than Navy, so wondered if it was actually stated somewhere that Elizabeth had seen)

Chris :)

(now seen!)

Edits (the Marriage above posted by safc above is available on Find My Past, from image, occupation of Charles was Fisherman, Residence at Time, 70, Division Road, for Elsie, 1, Division Road. His Father, William Owen, occ. Gilder and Decorator. Her Father, William Watkins (Deceased) occ. Labourer. Witnesses, Walter Lamb, Eliza Ann Huggins) (as some already on posting above)

CH - Re: "How do you know Charles was in Merchant Navy?."

You posted details from his m.cert which said he was a fisherman.

Yes it was ??

How do you know Charles was in Merchant Navy?...(haven't read all through, was it stated on a Cert. somewhere)

Chris :)

(relates to a Charles below!)

04 December 1915 - Fife Free Press, & Kirkcaldy Guardian - Kirkcaldy

A Heavy Sentence
At the Burgh Court on Tuesday Bailie Dempster imposed fine of £5 or thirty days, on Charles Owen, a Grimsby bargeman, who was charged with having stolen a cotton shirt from the shop in High Street occupied by Nisbet and Company. On 13th inst., and a gold cased lever watch, from the master's cabin of the steam tug 'Southern Cross', lying in the west dock on 27th inst. On evidence being led, he was found guilty and fined.

Update:
I now have the certs I ordered and have some answers!
Charles WHB Owen is the son of my great grandma Elsie Owen. However no fathers name is on the birth certificate ? Elsie was married to Charles Owen Snr.
Elsie died on 18 November 1913 of a pulmonary aorta? I think my Grandma Mary s memory of her mother dropping dead in front of her is a real possibility.
Also Charles Snr served in the Merchant Navy in WW1, Ive seen his medal card online.
Now I think this may be why his children were adopted out, he was a fisherman at sea, who would look after them now their mother was dead?
I now want to find a death certificate for Charles Snr dob July 1875
Thanks for all your help, I'll keep you posted

Yes AustinQ I think I will take your advice thank you. I have few facts and only the memories of a little girl who it appear , lost her family age 7 and went to an orphanage. She could've forgotten some of the story or only overhead conversations. I'll share when I know : )

Please let us know the results Elizabeth. Hope it solves a mystery!

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

(if not, order from above £9.25 each)

Chris :)

Thanks Chris for that info , I followed a link to Yorkshire BMD page and will order a copy of the death certificate. It's not clear how to do that though, I'll try again later

I think that'll be the next step : )

So excited !!

There is no David Owen born after September 1911 that has a mother's maiden name of Watkins.

If it was my family I'd purchase the Charles W H B Owen certificate as there is no marriage within that area that fits, yet we know that Charles was in Grimsby around that time, so the probability of Charles and Elsie being parents are good.

But, it's your family and this is just a suggestion.

Also, bearing in mind what you've been told it may be worth purchasing the death certificate suggested by Chris- without it, I think you will always be wondering. If it turns out to be correct, great, but if not, then you can look at other possibles. Sometimes children were told parents had died rather than tell them that parents were unable to look after them.

(did post below earlier, if any help)

Deaths Dec 1913 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------
Owen Elsie 40 Hull 9d 350

Chris :)

I'm not sure at this stage I can know for sure if there was a baby called David Owen born 1913. It's all wrapped up in mystery - it was never talked about in my family. Until now!
I have my grandmother Mary Elizabeth birth certificate with dob 1 Jan 1907 in Grimsby. There's been no mention of a baby Charles born 1911 so that's another puzzle to solve.
I do wonder what made Charles place a declaration in the Hull Daily Mail in 1900 stating he was not responsible for his wife Elsie's debts? It would seem to be some legal procedure perhaps ?
Also the orphanage Mary Elizabeth was taken to around 1913/14. I wonder if her mother Elsie died and maybe her dad went to war.
Another puzzle piece .
Thank you all :-)

I don't see anything else to fit with it?!!

(could be!, probably not relating to Elsie, just trying to 'sort', lol)

Baptism
County Lincolnshire
Place Wainfleet All Saints
Church name All Saints
Register type Unspecified
Register entry number 450
Baptism date 27 Nov 1904
Person forename William
Person abode Croft Marsh
Father forename William
Father surname KIMSON
Father occupation Labourer
Mother forename Harriet Gertrude


Baptism
County Lincolnshire
Place Wainfleet All Saints
Church name All Saints
Register type Unspecified
Register entry number 1425
Baptism date 28 Jul 1881
Person forename Harriet Gertrude
Person abode Wainfleet
Father forename Robert
Father surname ALLENBY
Father occupation Fisherman
Mother forename Mary Elizabeth

http://www.freereg.org.uk/


(and her Death, 1969 Boston, with William 1939, no idea why down as Widow 1911 then!)

Chris :)

(and for your Birth find!)

Death
CHARLES WILLIAM H B
Last name OWEN
Gender Male
Birth day 6
Birth month 9
Birth year 1911
Death quarter 3
Death year 1974
District GRIMSBY
County Lincolnshire
Volume 7
Page 0430


Edits (lol, not William Kimson, he is with wife on 1911, Wainfleet!)