Find Ancestors

Yes that looks very promising Shirley Thank you.

maybe

First name(s) LUCY
Last name DAVIES
Marriage quarter 4
Marriage year 1886
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ LUCY DAVIES married
JOHN KEYNOLD LEWIS
District CARMARTHEN
District number -
County Carmarthenshire
Country Wales
Volume 11A
Page 1335
Record set England & Wales marriages 1837-2008
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Marriages & divorces
Collections from Great Britain

freebmd record

Marriages Dec 1886
DAVIES Lucy Carmarthen 11a 1335
LEWIS John Reynold Carmarthen 11a 1335

sadly
Deaths Sep 1887
Lewis John Reynolds 24 Carmarthen 11a 466

Well, I have finally received the certificates I sent for. I will go through them tomorrow and give you an update. At a glance they all look good as far as matches go. The only one surprise was the marriage of Lucy Lewis and Henry Evans in 1888. At just 19 years old Lucy Lewis was already a widow. Her father was David Davies a farmer. Henry's father was John Evans a publican.

LEWIS ELEANOR SARAH 1890 Carmarthen Baptisms Llanarthne, Carmarthenshire, Wales (Find My Past)

(on image for above, 1st September. George, occ. Innkeeper. Abode 1 Temple Gardens, Carmarthen. Mother, Sarah)

(looks to match 1891)

Births Sep 1890 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Lewis Eleanor Sarah Carmarthen 11a 1017


Baptism
LEWIS HENRY GEORGE WHITE 1900 1900 Carmarthen Baptisms Abergwili, Carmarthenshire, Wales (18th July. George occ. Cattle Dealer)

Chris :)

(you could always check 'Search All Member Trees' (top right of page here, under 'Search') to see if any names are being shared by other Members)


edits (from FMP, Burial below for 1888, 26th July. Abode, Ffairfach, nr. Llandeilo Fawr)

(hoping these place names are spelt right, lol, not familiar 'territory' to me!, usually have to 'google search')

JAMES THOMAS 1858 1888 Carmarthen Burials Llanarthne, Carmarthenshire, Wales


(strange?, not there 1891, but there 1901)

13th October 1897 4 Lewis Baptisms...Lucy, Elizabeth, Margaretta and Mary Annie. Father George, occ. Cattle Dealer. Abode, The Village, Abergwili, Mother, Margaretta)

(here below!)

1891 (Find My Past)
Eliza Lewis Head Widow Female 69 1822 Licensed Victualler Cardiganshire, Wales
David Lewis Son Single Male 34 1857 Butcher St Peters, Carmarthenshire, Wales
Elizabeth Lewis Daughter Single Female 32 1859 Barmaid St Peters, Carmarthenshire, Wales
Lucy Lewis Granddaughter - Female 7 1884 Scholar Abergwili, Carmarthenshire, Wales
Bessie Lewis Granddaughter - Female 6 1885 Scholar Abergwili, Carmarthenshire, Wales
Maggie Lewis Granddaughter - Female 4 1887 Scholar Abergwili, Carmarthenshire, Wales
Mary Annie Lewis Granddaughter - Female 2 1889 - Abergwili, Carmarthenshire, Wales
House name Friends Arms Public House
Street St Clears Road
Town Carmarthen
Parish Carmarthen St Peter
County Carmarthenshire
Registration district Carmarthen
Archive reference RG12
Piece number 4518
Folio 17
Page 27


(possible)

Marriages Jun 1883 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------------------
DAVIES Margretta Carmarthen 11a 1113
LEWIS George Carmarthen 11a 1113

(looks to be Son of George Lewis occ. Butcher)

Possible for Thomas' baptism-

Carmarthen Baptisms Transcription

First name(s) THOMAS
Last name JAMES
Birth year 1888
Baptism year 1888
Baptism day 20
Baptism month Aug
Baptism place LLANARTHNE
Father's first name(s) Thomas (Commercial Traveller)
Mother's first name(s) Sarah
Abode: Garreg-wen
County Carmarthenshire
Country Wales
-------------------------------------------------

1891:

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Parkfield Cottages, Parkyrisks, Carmarthen St Peter, Carmarthen, Carmarthenshire, Wales

George Lewis Head Married Male 36 1855 Cattle Dealer St Peters, Carmarthenshire,
Sarah Lewis Wife Married Female 30 1861 - Carmarthenshire, Wales
Tom I Lewis Son - Male 2 1889 - Carmarthenshire, Wales
Elenor S Lewis Daughter - Female 0 1891 - St Peters, Carmarthenshire, Wales
Mary Morgan Visitor Single Female 23 1868 - Carmarthenshire, Wales

(Image states Tom J Lewis)
----------------------------------------

I'm presuming the J was for James (as in his surname)- which fits with the name of his Outfitter's business
------------------------------------------------

Possible death for Sarah's first husband:

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations

JAMES- Thomas 23 October. Administration of the personal estate of Thomas James late of Towy- Terrace near Llandilo in the Parsih of Llandilofawr in the County of Carmarthen Commercial traveller who died 22 July 1888 at Towy- Terrace was granted at Carmarthen to Sarah James of Towy-Terrace Widow the relict.

Dyssul house is where Henry David Thomas James was born so your efforts have definitely led to the correct family. I'm not sure why he would have said that his father died during WW1 though. It's not clear if he actually went into the armed forces. Unless stories have become confused with his grandfather Thomas James dying when his own father Thomas was just a toddler. This would also tie in with the two different occupations Henry put on his marriage certificate 1. Outfitter and the other animal dealer. When in fact that was his (step) grandfathers occupation. I guess we'll never really know. Henry had two or three daughters with his wife Jean Owen in London so I'm hoping to find them. And also any record of Henry joining up for WW11.

The Welsh newspapers are informative and so entertaining. This is a very colourful family!
I think Thomas James mum could be Sarah Thomas and later Lewis. The GRO site is down for maintenance so I will add a few more certificates to the list tomorrow.

(passing through!, saw below to add quick!)

Chris :)

1939 Register (Find My Past)

9 Vaughan Street , Llanelly M.B., Carmarthenshire
Emily C Davies 12 Oct 1891 Female Millinery Buyer Married
Thomas L Davies 21 May 1890 Male Draper Retail Master Married
Sarah Lewis 22 May 1860 Female Incapacitated Widowed

(Emily C. Married 1924)

Here they are in 1901- Thomas listed under Lewis with middle initial J!:

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Bodarddu, Abergwili Viney, Abergwilly, Carmarthen, Carmarthenshire, Wales

George Lewis Head Married Male 46 1855 Coal Merchant St Peters, Carmarthenshire,
Sarah Lewis Wife Married Female 40 1861 - Carmarthenshire, Wales
Lucy Lewis Daughter Single Female 17 1884 Milliner Abergwili, Carmarthenshire,
Elizabeth Lewis Daughter Single Female 15 1886 Dressmaker Abergwili, Carmarthenshire,
Margaretta Lewis Daughter Single Female 14 1887 Milliner Abergwili, Carmarthenshire,
Mary Annie Lewis Daughter Single Female 12 1889 - Abergwili, Carmarthenshire,
Thomas J Lewis Son - Male 12 1889 - Carmarthenshire, Wales
Elenor S Lewis Daughter - Female 10 1891 - St Peters, Carmarthenshire,
Emily C Lewis Daughter - Female 9 1892 - St Peters, Carmarthenshire,
Henry G W Lewis Son - Male 0 1901 - Abergwili, Carmarthenshire,
------------------------------------------

Constance from the 1911 was EMILY Constance
----------------------------------

Can see them in 1891- George's children are with his parents, and Thomas listed under Tom J with his mother and George. Will put up later- must go now

Oh oh! I had been thinking that the Lewis name came from Thomas's mother in law, Lucy Lewis. I think the name I couldn't work out on the marriage certificate of Thomas James and Mgt G Evans is Emily Constance Lewis ( along with Wm Evans and David John Evans).
You guys are super sleuths!!!

(lol, AQ, you psychic, or what!, I asked, you answered, at same time, Very well done!)

Chris :)

(really must go now, will look in later!)

Chris- looks like you're right!!

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Llanarth House Cross Hands Llannon Llanely Carmarthenshire, Llannon, Carmarthenshire, Wales

George Lewis Head Married Male Catle Dealer 57 1854 Carmarthen
Sarah Lewis Wife Married Female - 51 1860 Carmarthen
Samuel Newan Foulkes Boarder Single Male Mrcs Lrcp 33 1878 Conwaycarnavon
Tom James Son Single Male - 24 1887 Llanff Aberbythyth >>>>
Constance Lewis Daughter Single Female - 20 1891 Abergwilli
Henry E W Lewis Son - Male School 12 1899 Abergwilli
E A Thomas - Single Female Servant 20 1891 Llandybie
----------------------------------

It's coming along nicely- so disappointed I have to go work in 15 minutes!

(spent far too long in 'chair' here this morning, lol, but did notice below as Lewis?, something, somewhere on 1911 perhaps, wonder if his Mother re-married to Lewis?, been searching Probates as James, lol)

Chris :)

Advertising
DRESSMAKERS. WANTED Dressmaker; experienced; full particulars, Lewis, Llanarth House. Cross Hands..

Evening Express (Special Edition) 7th June 1909

Well done Chris!

Dmjs- you can access the Welsh newspapers (upto 1919) free here:

http://newspapers.library.wales/

(more on article below, Thomas James/Lewis)

Chris :)

CROSS HANDS OUTFITTERS AFFAIRS.
…gone to the oiviiei- five weeks before he left and got Lisbon House transferred to her as tenant. That was done to secure the furniture to her. It was her own furniture. You and she came to the conclusion that there was a storm brewing?—Yes. You say you owe 3s 9d. and that your assets amount to £ 26 9s 4d, and they do not come to anything like that. You commenced business with a capital of £80…

The Carmarthen Weekly Reporter (Supplement)1st May 1914

(includes his legacy of £100, left to him by his Mother, invested it into business of outfitter and draper, carried onto him by his Mother at Llanarth House, Cross Hands, after 1912 at Dyssul House, Cross Hands, bespoke Tailor, name of J. T. Lewis...)


(up for sale below, according to above article, looks like his Mother was 'funding' him!, Cross Hands an expensive place to live, apparently!)

Advertising
RE LLANARTH HOUSE, CROSS HANDS, CARMARTHEN. TO LET, Dwelling house with adjoining com- modious one-storey Shop (communicating), also 2 Lock-up shops adjoining, all situate in…

The Carmarthen Journal and South Wales Weekly Advertiser
(First edition) 5th September 1913


edits (would then answer below!, Llanarth House)

Dmjs Report 20 Jul 2016 10:57

Ages on marriage certificate Thomas 24, bachelor residing at Cross hands ( I can't make out the name of the house - possibly Llanmouth)

You can search/ order Wills online here £10 (UK) -

Wills & Probate:

REES Margaret Gwendoline of 44 Glynderi Tanerdy, Carmarthen died 19 April 1977 Probate Llandaff 25 May.

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#calendar

they may provide extra clues?

----------------------------------------------------------

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations),

James- Thomas of 19 Derwent Street Llanelly, Carmarthenshire died 29 June 1935 at Llanelly Hospital, Llanelly Administration Carmarthen 16 September to Margaret Gwendolne James, widow.

Yes totally. Hearsay is great but it can definitely send you off track.It also makes it a bit awkward if someone thinks a certain way about their family and the reality turns out to be somewhat different. I can't find a will/probate address for Thomas at Derwent street. To be honest I haven't been able to confirm much about him. Almost everything I have so far has come from you guys! I've sent for some more certificates today so hopefully when they arrive next month it might give a bit more insight.

What people are told/ what people remember and what actually happened are often very different.

I'm sure the 1935 death is correct- he was at Derwent Street, the same address as Margaret was in 1939.

This would mean that it is a different Thomas James to the one referred to above who's death is listed in 1935.

Wow thank you so much I did not expect to see all of this this morning!!! So much to try and get my head around. I have never looked at newspapers before. I need to work out how to get to individual articles as this is so interesting.

Yes Thomas James occupation was listed as an outfitter when he married Margaret G. Evans in 1912.
His son Henry David Thomas James also listed his fathers occupation as a gentlemen's outfitter (deceased) when he married Elsie Pettit in 1937. They had one son born in 1938 but he does not appear on 1939 register so I am not sure if he lived. Henry divorced Elsie and married Jean Margaret Owen in 1947, however, he then listed his father's occupation as an animal dealer (retired)! This seems very bizarre. I've been told that Thomas James died during WW1.