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I am trying to find when Alice Slaughter died. She gave birth in 1904 in East London but on the 1911 census her husband John was a widower. I have found where John is buried but she is not in the same grave. Alice was born in 1871 and the date of a death nearest to her age (3 years out) was registered at Brentford, I know that there is/was Hanwell Asylum but if somebody did have a mental illness would they be put in a hosptal that far from the East End of London.

Pam

what about this one ?

Name: Alice Mary Slaughter
Estimated birth year: abt 1872
Registration Year: 1907
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 35
Registration district: St Albans
Parishes for this Registration District: this Registration District
Inferred County: Hertfordshire
Volume: 3a
Page: 324

was Slaughter her married name?

????

https://www.deceasedonline.com/servlet/GSDOSearch

Burial Register summary
last name Slaughter
first names Alice
Burial date 05 September 1910
Authority London Borough of Islington
Location Islington Cemetery (Islington)

The only deaths for an Alice Slaughter 1 - 3 Q 1910 are

Deaths Sep 1910 (>99%)
Slaughter Alice 46 Barnet 3a 150
Slaughter Alice 36 Brentford 3a 27 <<< the one you found

just to help us out a little with some facts, is this her husband in the 1911 census in West Ham?


John Thomas Slaughter 45 - widowed stationary stoker born Stepney
Ann Slaughter 16 - all children born West Ham
Elizebath Slaughter 14
William Slaughter 7
Ann Mason 65 - widowed mother-in-law born South Shields

and in 1901

John T Slaughter 34
Alice A Slaughter 28
John Slaughter 11
Charles Slaughter 9
Ann Slaughter 6
Lissie Slaughter 4
Ann Mason 55
William Slaughter 29


so the marriage

Marriages Dec 1888
HELLINGS Alice Ann Mile End 1c 905
SLAUGHTER John Thomas Mile End 1c 905


and her birth (late 1871?)

Births Mar 1872
HELLINGS Alice Ann Whitechapel 1c 397


probably her mother's (re)marriage

Marriages Dec 1881
HELLINGS Ann Bethnal Green
MASON Albert Edward Bethnal Green 1c 405


since both spouses were attached to their middle names, we might expect to see the middle name/initial on the death record ... or possibly to see it recorded as Ann, because often the consistent use of a middle initial indicates that the person went by a middle name.


Possibly she had not actually died and instead had left the family ... but if that were the case and she was living under a new partner's name and possibly her death, whenever it then would have been, was registered under his name, it could be impossible to identify it.

Thankyou all for replying, Yes the 1911 census is her husband John and Family, William aged 7 years is the last birth certificate that i have of a child that she gave birth to. But she may have had more.I have got the death certificate for Alice Mary Slaughter (she was a spinster).
When Alice Ann Hellings was born in Charlotte Street Whitechapel her mother Ann Hellings had been a widow for over 2 years so that is another mystery as i have no idea who her natural father was, she sure is a pain. Her mother Ann Hellings (nee Nicol) did marry Albert Edward Mason in 1881 but (if i remember correctly)by the 1891 census Ann called herself Mary a widow, her birth certificate only states Ann.
It is a possibility that maybe she left the family either by choice or hospitalised,i have been told that in those days people would pretend that a family member had died rather than admitting that they were in a mental hospital?

Marriages Sep 1867

HELLINGS John Bethnal Green 1c 635 Scan available - click to view
NICHOL Ann Bethnal Green 1c 635

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
James Street, Bethnal Green, London, England

Learn more
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Robert Nichol Head - Male 60 1811 - Durham, England
Transcription
Ann Helling Daughter - Female 25 1846 - Durham, England
Transcription
John Robert Helling Grandson - Male 3 1868 - London, Middlesex, England

ann is a widow

John Robert Hellings
England and Wales Birth Registration Index, 1837-2008


birth registration:

1868

Whitechapel, London, England

Deaths Sep 1868 (>99%)
Hellings John 22 Bethnal Green 1c 243

Thankyou all again but i do have all birth death and marriage certificates for all the above people except forJohn Robert Hellings born 1868 as i only have a birth certificate for him, i am just lost on Alice Ann Hellings natural father as her birth certificate says father unknown, it would be helpful maybe if there were parish records,maybe her mother asked for money assistance although she did live before Alice's birth with her father Robert Nicholl in Bethnal Green.,

could john Robert born 1868 been adopted

of course you knew all that Pamela, and it isn't helpful to your current search ...

I posted the info that related to your question because it helps to know the various surnames involved and the household composition in 1911, for instance that Alice's mother was with Alice's husband and children ... it would be natural for her to stay on to help John if Alice had died or was in an institution ... maybe less so if Alice had left the family but still possible.

So there is just no record of Alice's death unless it has been misrecorded, or she was not in fact dead as of 1911 and died under another name ...

Was Alice your great-grandmother, at a guess? and your grandparent would have died quite some time ago one would assume, and never spoke of their childhood that you know of?


would this be John's death?

Deaths Sep 1940
Slaughter John T 75 Ilford 4a 821

and he didn't remarry ...


findmypast is having technical difficulties but from what I can tell, John was living alone in 1939

John T Slaughter 1865 Ilford M.B. Essex

I don't think a John Hellings aged 22 who died in 1868 was the John Robert Hellings born in 1868?

I wonder about this one in the 1911 census

Name: Robert Hellings
Age in 1911: 38
Estimated birth year: abt 1873
Relation to Head: Boarder
Gender: Male
Birth Place: London, England
Civil Parish: Kingswinford
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England
Street address: No 3 Round Oak
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: General Labourer
Registration district: Stourbridge
Sub-registration district: Kingswinford


there is no Robert Hellings birth to match that person


a possible match in 1881

Name: Robert Hellings
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1869
Relationship to Head: Scholar
Gender: Male
Where born: London, London, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Ratcliffe
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: "Barnados Home" 18 To 26 Stepney Causeway
Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Stepney
ED, institution, or vessel: Home for Working and Destitute Lads


the location in 1911 could possibly fit with this death

Deaths Mar 1952
HELLINGS John R 83 Rowley R. 9b 342

Yes Alice was my great grandmother. My mother married into the Slaughter family in 1935 but never met Alice or John, she was told that Alice had disappeared and nobody knew what had happened to her. John Thomas Slaughter died in 1940 at his son in laws home, Loxford Lane Iford, he is buried in Rippleside cemetery Barking, his 2 daughters are buried in the same grave.

On the 1881 census (just before Ann married Albert Edward Mason) Ann and Alice wre living in Whitechapel at Cayley Street, John was not with them and they were listed as HILLINGS, I have wondered if John Robert was in fact the boy in Dr Barnado's but i he never seems to appear on any census. I have found a John Robert Hellings on electoral rolls living in Egleton Rd, at numbers 5 and 9, he was living with a woman called Alice Hellings and they had 2 sons,Charles Clement Hellings born 1896 and Edwin Alfred Hellings born 1899, i seem to remember checking to find that her name wasn't really Hellings. I have the house upside down at the moment and cannot get to all my information.

it's rather odd, Alice is at 9 Egleton Rd 1912-1916, John Robert is at 5 Egleton Rd 1902-1908

Alice could have been there but not a voter before 1912?

Name: Charles Clement Hellings
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 21 Jun 1896
Father's name: John Robert Hellings
Mother's name: Alice Hellings
Parish or Poor Law Union: Bromley St Leonard St Mary
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers

but no registration?

Births Jun 1899
Hellings Edwin Alfred Poplar 1c 607

and no apparent marriage

I don't see them in censuses ...


a bit of a tragic sequence of events for Edwin

Marriages Dec 1919
Hellings Edwin A Dabbs Poplar 1c 857

Deaths Dec 1923
Hellings Edwin A 24 Poplar 1c 411

Births Jun 1924
Hellings Edwin A Dabbs Poplar 1c 633

Marriages Jun 1947
Hellings Edwin A Still Hackney 5c 1689


you have the Edwins Sr and Jr in your tree on spec I guess?

do you know the other people who have Edwin Sr?

someone also has an Edwin 1912 Bow, who doesn't seem to exist in birth regs


the John R Hellings death I posted did match your John Robert's age exactly

Deaths Mar 1952
HELLINGS John R 83 Rowley R. 9b 342

Just going on Jonnie' info. Is this John in 1939?


Tolladay Household (4 People)
30 Loxford Lane , Ilford M.B., Essex, England

John T Slaughter 26 Jul 1865 Male Boiler Attendant (Retired) Married 156 4
Arthur W Tolladay 14 Mar 1892 Male Electric Train Driver L Married 156 1
Elizabeth F Tolladay 23 Oct 1896 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 156 2
Leslie W Tolladay 07 Sep 1921 Male Clerical Officer (Civil Ser Single 156 3

Joonie, that death is correct. Here's the probate (with Will)

John Thomas Slaughter (same address as above)
Died 14th Sept 1940
Admin to: John Walter Slaughter, Bakery Manager £ 588 3s

Also, a possible for Edwin? Ancestry has a whole load of other people living at the same address on the below census


1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
9 Egleton Road Bromley by Bow, Poplar Borough, London, England

Alice McGregor Head Widow Female - 49 1862 Stackwell London
John William McGregor Son Single Male Printers Machine Hand 21 1890 Bromley London
Robert McGregor Son Single Male Pawnbrokers Assistant 17 1894 Westham Essex
Charles McGregor Son Single Male Vanguard 14 1897 Westham Essex
Edwin Hellings Son - Male School 12 1899 Bromley London

And in 1901

Added: This looks like Alice Stone (her father was Clement Stone see above on Joonie' post) who married John McGregor in 1884 but the couple are not together in 1891. Maybe she was in a relationship John T Hellings

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
5, Egleton Road, London, Bromley, Poplar, England

Alice McGregor Head Married Female 39 1862 - Blackwall, London, England
John McGregor Son - Male 11 1890 - Bromley, Middlesex, England
Robert McGregor Son - Male 7 1894 - Stratford, London, England
Ann McGregor Daughter - Female 8 1893 - Stratford, London, England
Charles McGregor Son - Male 4 1897 - Stratford, London, England
Edwin McGregor Son - Male 2 1899 - Bromley, Middlesex, England

Might be worth getting this death certificate


Deaths Mar 1917
McGregor Alice 55 Poplar 1c 614


And would this birth match the baptism that Joonie posted?

Sept 1896
McGregor Charles Clement W. Ham 4a 178

Have you tried just checking for her under initials? Inmates in Asylums/ Workhouses were often just listed under initials.

1911
Name: A S
Age in 1911: 40
Estimated birth year: abt 1871
Relation to Head: Patient (Lunatic)
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Hoxton, London, England
Civil Parish: Epsom
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street address: London County Council, Long Grove Asylum, Epsom
Marital Status: MarrieD
Registration district: Epsom
Registration District Number: 31
Sub-registration district: Epsom
ED, institution, or vessel: 18-24
Piece: 2965

Relating to the censuses above.

John William Hillings
Baptism 27th Feb 1890
Bromley, Tower Hamlets
Father: John Robert
Mother Alice Macgregor

According to Charles Henry's military file, Alice was still at home in Sept 1907:

British Army Service Records 1760-1915 Transcription

name(s) CHARLES HENRY SLAUGHTER
Birth year 1890
Birth town BOW
Birth county MIDDLESEX
Birth country ENGLAND
Service number 5431
Document Type Attestation
Attestation year 1907
Attestation Day 18
Attestation Month 9
Attestation age years 17
Attestation age months 8
Attestation Corps 5TH BN MIDDLESEX REGT
Attestation service number 543

Next of Kin: 24 East (Earl?) Road, Portway
Father: John
Mother: Alice
Brother: John
Brother: William