Find Ancestors

So glad your brick wall has crumbled Lesley.

Thanks for letting us know about John Thomas's birth certificate.

Good luck with your research.

Hello Rootgatherer. Just received the copy birth certificate for John Thomas Burr. No father is named only Sarah Burr as mother. Her address is Bury Mill End, Hemel Hempstead. I think the mystery has been cracked. Now I can try to trace the family back through the ages. Thanks for all your help. Hopefully I will find someone on Genes Reunited who also has my relatives on their tree.
Thanks and regards. Lesley :-)

No problem Lesley. I have sent the marriage certificate. It should be in your in box.

I think we may have cracked it and the above is your Thomas born before his parents married hence his birth registered in his Mum's maiden name. As John and Sarah are together in the same household in 1861, I do think that John is probably his father but who knows. The only doubts I have is that John Field isn't a Carpenter and I don't think he died before John Thomas married but perhaps they had a falling out and that's why he reverted to the surname Burr. (I had a great uncle who fell out with his Dad and took his mother's surname)

Hello Root gatherer
Thanks for all the lovely information. A copy of the marriage certificate would be gratefully received. I will be buying John Thomas' birth certificate so will get back to you when I have it. I love a mystery! The community helped me trace my husbands family. We are Sherman 's but it turned out that his Granddad changed his name from Sheringham to Sherman when he absconded from the Navy. Nobody knew this and I spent years trying to trace the Sherman family.
Thanks again. Regards Lesley

:-)

If you do decide to buy John Thomas's birth certificate, can you come back to this thread and let us know the details please?

John and Sarah in the same household in 1861


Name: John Field
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: 1836
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: St Gadsden, Hertfordshire, England
Civil Parish: Hemel Hempstead
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Hemel Hempstead
County/Island: Hertfordshire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image
Registration district: Hemel Hempstead
Sub-registration district: Hemel Hempstead
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 141
Piece: 838
Folio: 65
Page Number: 25
Household Members:
Name Age
Lucy Jackson 47
Emma Jackson 12
Mary Ann Jackson 9
Sarah Burr 24
John Field 25
Thomas Britting 30
Maryann Britting 31
Anne Lugh 10

Not seeing a birth for Thomas with the surname Field.

Here in 1881 Thomas has a middle initial "B". Maybe for Burr?

John Field
Age: 45
Estimated birth year: abt 1836
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Sarah Field
Gender: Male
Where born: Gt Gadsden, Hertfordshire, England
Civil Parish: Hemel Hempstead
County/Island: Hertfordshire
Country: England
Street address: Bury Mill Hill
Marital Status: Married
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: General Lab
Registration district: Hemel Hempstead
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1443
Folio: 63
Page Number: 19
Household Members:
Name Age
John Field 45
Sarah Field 44
Thomas B. Field 19 <<<<<<<<<
James Field 12
Charles Field 9
Frederic Field 5

Looking at this one and wondering..........

Marriages Sep 1864 (>99%)
Burr Sarah H Hempstead 3a 469 Scan available - click to view
Crawley Joseph H Hempstead 3a 469 Scan available - click to view
DORMON Ann H Hempstead 3a 469 Scan available - click to view
FIELD John H Hempstead 3a 469 Scan available - click to view


1871

Sarah Field
Age: 34
Estimated birth year: abt 1837
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John Field
Gender: Female
Where born: Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire, England
Civil Parish: Hemel Hempstead
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Hemel Hempstead
County/Island: Hertfordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Hemel Hempstead
Sub-registration district: Hemel Hempstead
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Household schedule number: 106
Piece: 1386
Folio: 66
Page Number: 19
Household Members:
Name Age
John Field 35
Sarah Field 34
Thomas Field 9
James Field 2


Just let me have a look to see if there is a birth for Thomas Field.

Don't buy the marriage certificate please. I'll PM a copy. Better to spend your money getting John Thomas's birth certificate.

I'm not seeing him on any census records before he married. You will probably need to buy his birth certificate to find his parents' names.

If he was illegitimate, he may be lurking under a stepfather's surname on the census records.

First name(s) JOHN THOMAS
Last name BURR
Birth year 1861
Birth quarter 2
Registration month -
Mother's last name -
District HEMEL HEMPSTEAD
County Hertfordshire
Country England
Volume 3A
Page 324
Record set England & Wales births 1837-2006
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Births & baptisms
Collections from Great Britain
© brightsolid online publishing ltd

Hello everybody. Have just received Maud Annie Burr 's birth certificate this morning. Yes, her mother's maiden name was Guyatt so we were on the right track. Thomas John Burr seems to be slightly illusive in that I cannot find him on an 1871 census in order to trace his family. I think his father was a John but it looks like I will have to order a copy marriage certificate of Annie Guyatt and Thomas Burr.
Will let you know. Thanks again. Lesley

Here's you Fingal Street connection.

Alice L Donaldson on the 1939 Register

1939 REGISTER TRANSCRIPTION
Donaldson Household (1 Person)
31 Fingal Street , Greenwich, London, England

Alice L Donaldson
DOB 15 Nov 1862
SEX Female
OCCUPATION Unpaid Domestic Duties
MARITAL STATUS Widowed
SCHEDULE 89
SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER 1


Alice L Donaldson
Birth Date: abt 1861
Date of Registration: Mar 1947
Age at Death: 86
Registration district: Wandsworth
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 5d
Page: 978

Louise King was a witness at sister Alice's wedding. Note Alice has knocked a couple of years off her age.

Alice Laura Guyatt
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Age: 30
Spouse: George Donaldson
Spouse Age: 29
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 2 Jun 1895
Parish: All Saints, Battle Bridge
Borough: Islington
Father Name: Robert Guyatt
Spouse Father: Henry Donaldson
Register Type: Parish Register


Father Robert, a Saddler is deceased.

Annie Beatrice was a witness at her sister Louise's marriage

Louise Guyatt
Estimated birth year: abt 1864
Age: 19
Spouse: George Edward King
Spouse Age: 22
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 23 Sep 1883
Parish: St Peter, Clerkenwell
Borough: Islington
Father Name: Robert , occ. Gentleman
Spouse Father: George King
Register Type: Parish Register

Just looked at Annie Guyatt's 1881 census and she had two sisters Alice and Louisa. Maud 's daughter said to me many years ago that Granddad Burr was being looked after by two Aunts, Aunt Alice and Aunt Lou, in Fingal Street. Looks more than likely that we are on the right track. Thanks. Lesley :-)

I think he used his middle name because his father was also John. It saves confusion or labelling them Wee John and big John.

Hello everybody. Thank you so much for all of your input. I have now ordered a copy of my Gran's birth certificate. I had a short version of it because my Dad had ordered one in 1952 for some reason. Thank you rootgatherer. I quite agree it is prudent to order certificates. I do have the marriage certificate of Frederick Francis and Maud Annie Burr. This does state that Maud's Dad was Thomas John Burr and that does make me think that I will be rewriting my family tree. And yes that is my Gran in 1939 at 359 Lodge Avenue. I thought that Thomas's father was William because I had found a Thomas Burr born in 1868 who seemed to match all of my criteria. In the census it states that his father was William. It looks like I was very wrong here. I can see that Thomas John/John Thomas wasn't very accurate with his birth date. I have now found the birth of a John Thomas born 1861 in Hemel Hempstead which is most probably my Great Granddad. Why would he call himself Thomas John when his birth says John Thomas? I will await the birth certificate with excitement of Maud Annie. Once I have her mum's maiden name I can put everything right. Thank you all again.
Lesley :-D

If you don't already have it, I think you first step is to buy a copy of your Gran's birth certificate to find out her mother's maiden surname.

It can be very difficult to build an accurate tree without buying certificates.

Come back and let us know how you get on please.

Think John Thomas wasn't accurate with his year of birth on census records either.

John Thomas Burr
Registration Year: 1861
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration district: Hemel Hempstead
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Hertfordshire
Volume: 3a
Page: 324