Find Ancestors

Same request on new thread

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1362756

I am wondering if anyone can offer any help find the death of Annie McDowall in Holywood, Belfast who was alive in the Holywood Urban census and when her husband George McDowall died in 1925 he was a widower, so she has died between 1911-25. in the same region.She was born about 1863 and despite a thorough search for her birth baptism, nothing concrete to be found. Thank you.

Just to add briefly, i was on a site with snippets on Irish certificates and it said Joseph McDowell his date of birth and mother's maiden name SMITH, so the Belfast certificate is indeed the correct one, just have to get my paws on it now! The 1911 census mentions 10 children were born and only 6 still living. I noted between the two irish census the elder Elizabeth had died and a new Elizabeth who was born 1908 had appeared. I looked through scotlands people index and the most likely ones i paid for, but none were them. Annies parents were John Smith and Agnes Wallace but no children have their names, so i was looking at them, to no avail!

Well after lots of to and fro the mystery seems to be sorted. Annie Smith, wife of George McDowall was the irish link and not the McDowall's. I found her parents marriage and her grandfather was Joseph Smith!! So there is the name. They lived at Banbridge, County Down and the inlaws and everyone lived there for several generations. What a pot of gold.I found that Belfast was 20 miles from there, and Holywood only 6. On looking at the 1901 and 1911 irish census it showed beyond doubt it was them. George McDowall was from Scotland and appears to have no Irish links at least for quite a way back. I have been told that to order an Irish birth certificate from 1900 located in Belfast, i would have to go to a UK site, as Northern Ireland was part of England at that time. Is this correct? I would hate to order in the wrong place and not get results after all this time!! your thoughts please.

PM from Heather:

"Yes this often happens, as a seaman he could have died anywhere!!"




The details of his death were posted by AustinQ on 28th April @18:40.

In addition, the record says:

Date of Receipt of Account in this Office - Jan 25th 1870.
Port from which Received - Stranraer.
Account sent to Board of Trade - Jan 27th 1870
He was a Mate; drowned at sea.
He was in debt at time of death - so nothing for his wife and family.

Found his death at sea in 1869 but there is no death certerficate!

I think it must be just a mistake that there's no death cert for him - he's slipped through the registration net.

I've checked for death certs for a couple of other people on the
Registers of Births, Marriages and Deaths at Sea, 1844-1890 - on Ancestry, as posted above by AustinQ, and they do have death certs.

I have found a MI from Stranraer cemetary with a family plot that has been transcribed incorrectly as someone else stated and is George McDowall the husband of Elizabeth Gray and some of the children and Elizabeth are buried there. it stated he was drowned at sea age 36 years in 1837! Have found his birth in 1833 and adding 36 years to this makes it 1869 but no record anywhere. Is it because he was drowned and body not found. I have checked deaths at sea on roots web and he is lot listed. Is it a variation of spelling or was there no certificate due to the circumstances of his death? appreciate your thoughts please.

??

I can only see this on Ancestry- not showing on FMP deaths at sea.

Registers of Births, Marriages and Deaths at Sea, 1844-1890

Name: G McDowall
Birth Date: abt 1836
Death Date: 14 Dec 1869
Death Age: 33
Ship: Mary Anne
Official No: 25,655

Marriage:
1856 STRANRAER /WIGTOWN
MCDOUALL GEORGE Father: George, Mother Elizabeth (Armour)
GRAY ELIZABETH Father: William, Mother Sarah (McCubbin)
-----------------------------------

Birth:
Name: George Mcdowall
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 9 Apr 1833
Birth Place: , Inch, Wigtown, Scotland
Baptism Place: , Inch, Wigtown, Scotland
Father: George Mcdowall
Mother: Elizabeth Armour
FHL Film Number: 1068036
Reference ID: 2:18FT52M

You say,
" i have also found this one too and am curious. is there an online link like Scotlands People for getting these?"


Do you mean the 1901 & 1911 Irish censuses posted by Eringobragh?

If so, this is the link:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/


EDIT:
Ah, no, I think you meant a way to get the birth cert, via the record of Joseph's birth.

The birth in Belfast mentioned does not come up with any results. I went to a county Down gen page and did a search of the registers with McDowall/ell and the parents full name and nothing showed up. So sadly they have eluded me yet again!

Eringobragh1916 i have also found this one too and am curious. is there an online link like Scotlands People for getting these?

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Trade Street, Inch, Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland

George McDowall Head Married Male 26 1865 Tailor Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
Annie McDowall Wife Married Female 26 1865 Tailors Wife Ireland
Elizabeth McDowall Daughter - Female 2 1889 - Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
Elizabeth J Smith Visitor Unmarried Female 35 1856 General Servant Ireland

This is the only Joseph McDowall (or variant) / Low/e marriage showing on SP for a feasible year:

1925 MCDOWALL JOSEPH
LOWE CATHERINE
BLYTHSWOOD GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/10 0834

There were 277 Margaret M(a)cDowall (or variant) deaths, 1920 - 35, 19 in Ayrshire, and 7 in Wigtownshire. One of those was in Stranraer - an infant who died in 1935..

69 Margaret M(a)cDowell (or variant) deaths , 7 in Wigtownshire, and 10 in Ayrshire. One was in Stranraer - the same infant as mentioned above.

(Don't know why the total for each of the spellings is different, when the child appears in both lists!)
.
There were 4 Maggie M(a)cDowall (or variant) deaths, 1 in Ayrshire.

And one Maggie M(a)cdowell, who died in Ayrshire.(Possibly the same person, in spite of the different totals.)

None of the records states Low(e) as a previous name.

Without knowing her age, or where she had lived, it's impossible to narrow it down further without looking at the images of all the certs.

When you searched for the first marriage did you select name variations please? If, for example you entered her first name as Margaret and she used Maggie or Peggy or some other form of Margaret, then the marriage would not show on the indexes.

Did you search on SP for her death using surname and first name variations please?

Thank you all for your very helpful ideas and i have from the family whom i am looking for that is was county Kerry and the town Hollywood is mentioned? The birth mentioned from Chris for 1900 is perfectly the date but the spelling is not correct, but that does not always matter, Joseph Smith McDowall was i would guess born in Ireland, but his other siblings born soon after were born in Stranraer. J.S.McD father George appears to be born in Stranraer too, so one wonders if the Irish birth is not correct. I have looked for several documents for place of birth, but sadly scottish marriage and death do not have this. Joseph Smith McDowall married Margaret Lowe and she died and he married Martha Murdoch in 1935 and no records of the 1st wife in scottish records either. So did he flit back and forth to his native Ireland.

Thanks for that Eringobragh. I'm quite sure you have found the right family for kellygirl :-)

Rootgatherer..That's Joseph's Birth and George jnr.b. Scotland (Census 1901/1911) was also named George "Smith" McDowell.

The reason Joseph's Birth Reg. shows "Belfast" is because " Holywood" the area of Co.Down where Joseph was probably born is in the "Metropolitan Area" of Belfast so Reg. would be Belfast

???????

Joseph Smith M'Dowell
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1900
Registration district: Belfast
Birth Country: Ireland
Volume: 1
Page: 433
FHL Film Number: 101068