Find Ancestors

exactly Sylvia, most of the Horn/es we find on US censuses are actually German in origin

but it is also not uncommonly Irish

my own Hornes - a great-grandmother - were Kentish :-)

(you see a thread called 'Horne family' and you think Aha, must investigate!)

A friend off site has found a record from the Union Steamship company ................

"........ very unhelpful passenger list done by Union Steamship co........... the departur port is Sydney just has C Horne Male 1896 no country of birth and I looked further down the page and they have written Austrians 20 male and 2 male children.. no names or anything else."

------

The problem here is that .........

a) there is a Christian Horne on Queensland records, but he's there both before and after the one we're looking for arrived in NZ

b) Horne is an Austrian or Germanic name .......... I found many of them listed on US censuses and on ships arriving in New York when I was looking for Peter Horne arriving in the US.

I suspect that the one on the Union Steamship might be one of the European immigrants.

what would you think of Ireland?

from passenger lists arriving in New York

Name: Peter Horn
Birth: abt 1831 - Ireland (says age 17)
Departure: Liverpool, England
Arrival: 15 Dec 1848 - New York, New York
Residence: Bellenia

also Andrew Horn age 18

they are in a list of 'ditto's after someone who was a Miller, but I would really think the dittos refer to 'Labourer' higher in the column with many dittos following


this could be that Peter in 1870 with a correctly named wife

Name: Peter Horn
Age in 1870: 38
Birth Year: abt 1832
Birthplace: Ireland
Home in 1870: Hazle, Luzerne, Pennsylvania
Race: White
Gender: Male
Post Office: Hazleton
Peter Horn 38
Lizzie Horn 40 born Ireland -- coal miner
Cornelius Horn 11 born Pennsylvania
John Horn 9
Mary Horn 7
Grace Horn 5
Frank Horn 1


do you think it's possible your 'Chris' was a Cornelius (a good Irish name) who disliked his name or was nicknamed from youth? 'Christian' is actually an unusual name for a British man in that day ... it was more commonly a female name in Scotland

... and was maybe older than he let on in NZ?

well, it happened :-)

I can't find that family in 1880 or 1860, and I should have said the 1890 US census was almost entirely destroyed (I was thinking it was the 1900)

familysearch doesn't seem to have any marriages for the children (there was a second Peter + Elizabeth Horn couple in Pennsylvania with slightly younger children some of whose marriages are shown there)

so the entire family could have re-emigrated

I've been looking through US censuses 1870-1890 and just not finding a soul named Chris* Horn* who resembles your man.

New Mexico Territory is included in the 1870 census and onward from there, for info. But it might not be surprising if it got recorded as 'Mexico' on a document in NZ at that time. I would think it much less likely that Christian's parents actually settled in Mexico.

In my own story, I went looking for a DNA match for my mother's father's male line to try to solve a mystery. I expected, since most people doing DNA testing are in the US, that I might find a match who was descended from a man who left Cornwall in the mid-1800s and went to the US in connection with mining. Through a great stroke of good luck (I had no idea what luck I would actually need, when I started out), that is exactly what I found. The man had gone first to the copper mine fields of Michigan and then to Arizona, still in connection with mining, although he himself was not a miner. So what I'm getting at is that the mining/southwest US connection makes the background plausible to me. :-)

As Sylvia said (and I asked before), it would be very useful to know when Christian arrived in NZ - at least it would tell us when to stop looking for him in the US! Presumably he would have sailed from California.

Christian's children's birth certificates would not likely provide any more helpful info about him, other than maybe occupation which could perhaps be useful.

I do have Christian/Cris marriage cert but all it has is:
Father - Peter Horne
Mother - Elizabeth
Born in Mexico
So not a lot of information
The list you have put up is 8 of 10 children Christian and Mary Ellen had.
The family have some of the birth certs so we might have to order more to see if there is any extra information on them.
I am not sure what ship he came out on but will try and find the information.

For information

Registration of the marriage of Mary Ellen Tobin and Christian Horne from the following site ..................

https://bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search/

1898/2953 Mary Ellen Tobin Cris Horne Order Product

You can buy the record to get full information. Use the Registration number given.


Note that he was married using the name CRIS, not Christian. That might be important in searching for him :-)


From the birth records of children born between 1898 and 1915 (ie over 100 years ago), he does seem to alternate between Cris and Christian .........

1907/14522 Horne Grace Mary Mary Ellen Christian - Order Product
1912/16114 Horne Teresa Amelia Mary Ellen Christian - Order Product
1905/7853 Horne Eric Leo Mary Ellen Christian - Order Product
1900/16248 Horne Peter Adelbert Mary Ellen Cris - Order Product
1909/16981 Horne Florence Ruth Mary Ellen Christian - Order Product
1901/16524 Horne Cecil Christian Mary Ellen Christian - Order Product
1899/4629 Horne Kathleen Annette Mary Ellen Cris - Order Product
1910/7990 Horne Margary Mary Ellen Christian - Order Product

Pauline .............

have you ever found his arrival in NZ ..... the ship he came on, and from where?

Have you ever seen his actual marriage registration or record to see what he said on there?

Sorry I will try and explain myself more clearly :-)
Peter Horne possibly born in Scotland! (1830-1840) Moved to USA/Mexico worked as a mining inspector. Married in the US we think.
Christian Horne son of Peter Horne born 1867 in New Mexico or Mexico.
Christian come to NZ around 1895 and married in 1898.

Pauline ......

have you found Christian's arrival in NZ?

If so, what does it say on the manifest?

It might help to know which country was the origin for the trip.

Is there any help from his marriage record to Mary Ellen?

Unfortunately, as AnnC is showing .............. Peter Horne is not an unusual name!

I found that out when looking at ancestry for clues, and there is so little to go on.

Name Peter Horne
Event Type Census
Event Date 1881
Gender Male
Age 45
Birthplace Aberdeenshire
Registration District Inverness
County Invernessshire
Birth Year (Estimated) 1836

??????????



Peter Horn

United Kingdom, Merchant Navy Seamen Records

Name Peter Horn
Event Type Military Service
Event Year Range 1853-1857
Event Place United Kingdom
Birthplace Renfrewshire
Birth Year 1836

??????


Peter Horn

United Kingdom, Merchant Navy Seamen Records

Name Peter Horn
Event Type Military Service
Event Year Range 1853-1857
Event Place United Kingdom
Birthplace Midlothian
Birth Year 1834

A Public Family Tree on ancestry has Christian's father as follows


Peter Christian Horne born 1835 in Wales; died date unknown Scotland

A little history lesson ..............


"New Mexico" was part of the viceroyalty of New Spain following the "exploration" in the 16th century.

It then became a part of MEXICO, eventually becoming a Territory of the US, and a State in 1912

It is often said that New Mexico was named for Mexico. However, New Mexico was given its name in 1563, and again in 1581, by Spanish explorers who believed the area contained wealthy Indian cultures similar to those of the found south of what is not the US - Mexico border.

Mexico, formerly a part of New Spain, adopted its name in 1821, after winning independence from Spanish rule.

New Mexico was only a part of the independent federal republic of Mexico for 12 years, 1836 through 1848.

It is quite possible that it was still referred to as "Mexico" in 1867 :-)

However, it does look as though that record is based on infomation from either his grave OR his death certificate ................

and we all know that such information can be faulty as it is based on what has been reported by the deceased, which may or may not be accurate.

I think Joonie's suggestion that New Mexico is a place to look is worth consideration ....... as well as a consideration of how he had younger siblings born in Scotland.

Did the whole family go back to Scotland between his birth and those of the siblings? If so, then it should be possible to find them on a census.

If not ............. then are the Scottish records for cousins / other relatives, and not his siblings?

second posting

Gins has posted a record stating he was born in Mexico

I don't understand how if Christian was born in Mexico/NM in 1867 he would have had siblings born in Scotland after that ... and the Peter Horn born 1866 Scotland would not be the Peter father of Christian ...

although of course it is possible that Christian was born in Scotland and grew up in New Mexico, but there should be a birth registration in Scotland in that case

New Mexico would certainly be the more logical destination from Scotland, than Mexico ... for example Cornish miners emigrated to the southwest US in connection with mining in the mid-19th century

Pauline do you have Christian's parents' names from a marriage/death certificate?

do you know about when he arrived in NZ? (how long before marriage?)

You should be able to find, purchase & download the Scottish birth records from
http://scotlandspeople.gov.uk/
Its a pay-to-view site, no subscriptions but very reasonable in price.

Scottish Statutory B,M & D records start in 1855 & should give quite detailed information about the parents.
http://scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/help/index.aspx?r=554&402

Thank you all for your helpful comments. Especially Ann for posting the information again. I live in NZ so have the deaths and places Christian and his Mary Ellen were buried. We have no idea if Christian had any siblings and if any were living in NZ also we have not been able to find a birth cert for Christian which would help so much. But Peter and Elizabeth Horne are the family we know nothing about so I will follow all these leads kindly sent to me again.
Most towns or districts in NZ have cemetery data bases so you can go online (free) and find family and also plot no's and sometimes photo's of the actual graves.