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Thanks for that encouraging thought, RG!

Maybe that's the answer to my problem with Edith.

Hopefully the 1921 census will prove otherwise . My mother and aunts remembered her, and if she'd died before 1921, they would only have been of pre-school or early primary school age.
To have been joking affectionately about her as "naughty Auntie Edie" I imagine they must have known her when they were at least a few years older than that.

But who knows?!

Not helping I know ArgyllGran but I'm convinced some death entries are missed from the Scottish death indexes. I have never found the death certificate for my GG Grandfather who was buried in Glasgow. I have a date of death from the cemetery records but have never found his death certificate.

The cousin's name was Elizabeth Young Dunwoodie.

She was actually a cousin of Fred's wife and Fanny's husband.
Born and died in Edinburgh, 1895 - 1938. Lived in Newcastle upon Tyne at 1911 census; returned to Edinburgh some time after that.

There's the Scotsman archive, but no family notices come up for either Butler or Dunwoodie:

http://archive.scotsman.com/search/results

The British Newspaper Archive includes The Edinburgh Evening News. Elizabeth Dunwoodie's obituary is there. Also an "In Memoriam" for her mother, Jane E.(nee Stanley).

Haven't had a thorough trawl yet.

Are there on-line historical papers that concentrate on the Edinburgh area?

What we need are decent descriptive obituaries/ weddings (not just announcements) of family members , cousins, in-laws etc to see if she's listed as one of the mourners/ guests.

Can I ask the surname of the cousin that was witness?

I have to finish shortly for the day, but am left feeling frustrated! Am going to look at wider family tomorrow (once my eyeballs have recovered)

The witnesses to Fred's marriage were his brother-in-law, and the same cousin who witnessed Fanny's marriage.

Yes, those were the addresses I visited as a child, and almost until Fanny's and Mary's deaths - both already widowed.

Thanks for your help, AQ. (and everyone else.)

Yes, I'm pretty sure Edith must have been in Scotland - but don't see a marriage or death for her in Scotland.
There are a few Edith Butler marriages in Scotland, but I've checked them all out, and none of them are her.
The ages at death of the few deceased Ediths don't match with her YOB, either.

The marriages for both Fanny and Fred give the address of 11, Dalgety Street, Edinburgh.

When Fred and Mary celebrate their silver wedding anniversary in 1939- they're living at 7 Cambusnethan Street. Also at same address in 1946 when eldest daughter marries.

I'll keep going- and throw any bits in if I see them. I feel sure Edith must have settled in Scotland too?

EDIT:- just seen you added the Witnesses- annoying Edith isn't one of them!

Many thanks for the newspaper article, AQ - yes it says much the same, but at greater length.

I'll have a rummage through my collection of BMD's re Fanny's marriage. I suspect it would be her brother who would be the witness.

Incidentally, Fanny married the brother of Fred's wife, and when I knew them they lived just a couple of hundred yards from each other - in the next street.

EDIT:
The witnesses to Fanny's marriage were her brother Fred and a cousin.

There are a couple mentions of Fanny in the Banbury papers- her marriage in 1917 and a daughter born to her and hubby in 1918 Edinburgh and her husbands death in 1926. There's also mention of Fred's marriage in 1914- but unfortunately they are just snippets (announcements) with no mention of Edith.

Was Edith a witness on Fanny's marriage?

Yes- will do, just give me a minute. The article says that it was Edith that found his body. Poor girl.

EDIT: Sent- sounds very much like the article you have.

Actually, no, on checking, it's the one from the Northampton Mercury of 21st Feb which I have.

If you can send me the one you mention, AQ, I'd be very grateful.

Yes thanks, AQ, I have.

It's maybe not surprising if Edith went a bit wild with the gentlemen at the races - she'd had a traumatic childhood.

She was the eldest of three siblings. Their mother died in childbirth in 1893, when Edith was seven, her brother was 5, and her sister 4.
Their father John clearly couldn't cope with three young children, and at some point between 1893 and 1901 Edith's younger sister was sent to live with an aunt, uncle and cousins.
John remarried in 1895, and subsequently worked as the landlord of a pub. He seems to have been given this job as a kind gesture by the pub's owner, for whom the second wife, Eliza, had worked as a nurse to his children.

Eliza died only five years after their marriage, in 1900.
Edith was still only 14, her brother 12, and the sister was 11.

In 1902 John committed suicide by cutting his own throat, due to depression brought on by his wife's death, and also the fact that the pub was in debt because he gave credit to customers who never paid up.
Although it doesn't say so in the papers, family rumour said that Edith was the one who found his body. There were notes left for various people, including Edith, with instructions to "Shut up the house as soon as you find this out, and let them all know about it. . . ." and to look after herself and the younger children.

Argyll- I take it you have the (large) article from the Banbury Advertiser - Thursday 27 February 1902 re the death of Edith's father. Terribly sad.

What a great snippet, Chris - thank you!

I hope they got him back!

lol, AG, just had to let you know, that along with missing Edith was Sweep!, hope she didn't disappear orf' with him!...

(sorry, nothing useful!)

Chris :)

19 July 1917 - Banbury Guardian - Banbury, Oxfordshire, England

LOST.
June 6th, Brown and White Spaniel, answers to the name of Sweep, wearing collar with "W. Allen. Tusmore" on it. Reward to anyone giving information to Mrs. W. Allen, Tusmore, Bicester.

Had a quick look at the passenger arrivals list on the NAA website, but no joy. Only three Edith Butlers arrived 1898-1966 - two were married, and one was born in Manchester.

No, I haven't tried the Australian library archives.
Again, there was never any suggestion that she'd emigrated - but maybe she did, who knows.

If only she'd had a more uncommon name, or a helpful and unusual middle initial!


Have to go out - will look back later.
Thanks for your interest.

Anything's possible, Jennifer!

As far as I'm aware, there was never any suggestion of anything like that, but maybe the family would have been too scandalised to discuss it much, especially in front of children. Not the done thing in those days!
I wish I'd been interested in genealogy in my teens - and paid more attention to stuff like that when the adults were chatting!

There's no reason to think she might be in Ireland , or anywhere else in particular, apart from Scotland or England.

Any chance she took up with a military chap and went to India with him?

There are 141 matches on the passenger lists. Australia, Canada etc. Have you been in touch with the very helpful library archives in Oz?