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DC for JG arrived. He died on 20.8.1882 @ St.Thomas's Hospital, London, aged 40, Coachman. Cause of death: 'Fractured ribs and Shock. Fell off a Brougham accidentally. 3 days.' Ooooh dear, poor chap.

Now I'm back into 'family whispers' territory because it was always believed that he had been kicked to death by one of the horses in the Royal Mews. Now deffo NOT the case. But wonder whether perhaps the said Brougham was 'Royal'????!!

Inquest was held on 24.8.1882. Is it possible to find this inquest? - would it have been reported in the papers?? Hope so.

Really puzzled by all of this. Have ordered JG's Death Cert to try to glean any more background information.
Stand by ...........!

I can't find a marriage for William Stallard and Mary in Sussex ............... but there are 5 elsewhere in England between , and mary does say in the 1861 Census that she was born in Weymouth, Dorset


All England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973

William Stallard Jun 1824 Kings Caple,Hereford,England Mary

William Stallard 22 Jun 1812 Saint Marys,Portsea,Hampshire,England Mary

William Stallard 7 Feb 1815 Saint George The Martyr, Southwark, Surrey, England Mary

William Stallard 1 Jul 1815 Bedminster, Somerset, England Mary

William Stallard 23 Feb 1819 Ansford,Somerset,England Mary Stephens

???????????????


England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973

Name: Thomas Child
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 19 Oct 1834
Marriage Place: St. Nicholas, Brighton, Sussex, England
Spouse: Mary Tilly
FHL Film Number: 1468821
Reference ID: IT1 P207 No619

image not available

Dea ...........


that 1841 Census is confusing!!

The double line indicating separate houses is actually between George Stallard and Lucy ............ so the elder Stallards are seemingly in the same house as the Chiles, while the 2 younger ones are with Richard Mackford


I think you are correct ............. they are separate households, but I also think "Chiles" should be "Childs"

I cannot find a Mary Chiles born ca 1832 anywhere else, BUT there is a baptism for a Mary Childs in 1830 at Saint Nicholas, Brighton, Sussex, parents Thomas Childs and Mary

Christening of Lucy's brother George? Father William !!


George Stallard
England Births and Christenings
Name George Stallard
Gender Male
Christening Date 24 Dec 1826
Christening Place BRIGHTON, SUSSEX, ENGLAND
Father's Name William Stallard
Mother's Name Mary


and brother James:


James Stallard
England Births and Christenings
Name James Stallard
Gender Male
Christening Date 24 Dec 1826
Christening Place BRIGHTON, SUSSEX, ENGLAND
Birth Date 18 Mar 1822
Father's Name William Stallard
Mother's Name Mary

Lucy Stallard's mother in 1861:

Mary Stallard

in the 1861 England Census
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Name: Mary Stallard
Age: 65
Estimated Birth Year: 1796
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Female
Where born: Weymouth, Dorset, England
Civil Parish: Brighton
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England
Registration district: Brighton
Sub-registration district: Kemp Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 63
Piece: 592
Folio: 105
Page Number: 11
Household Members:
Name Age
William Davey 44
Emily Davey 47
William H Davey 20
Douglas Davey 18
Walter Davey 12
Rupert Davey 10
Emily Davey 7
Mary Stallard 65

Sorry, Rootgatherer -

I was wrongly thinking that the John Gibbons in 1851 was the John Gibbons who married Eliza E.

Senior moment!

ArgyllGran, I'm not sure why the marriage of Emma Clark would question the age of John Gibbons on the 1851 census that I posted showing Eliza E with her possible parents? You don't think then that her father's name may also have been John? I wondered if her father and her husband's father may have been brothers.


Here's Emma Clark in 1841 and allowing for the "rounding down" of ages it ties in with the 1851 census.

Emma Clark
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Gender: Female
Where born: Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St Marylebone
Hundred: Ossulstone (Holborn Division)
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

View image
Registration district: St Marylebone
Sub-registration district: Cavendish Square
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 676
Book: 1
Folio: 8
Page Number: 10
Household Members:
Name Age
John Clark 60, Auctioneer
Emma Clark 25
Elizabeth Morre 40
Ann Kilsey 15
John Wythe 50

I had been following Lucy too and so far have come up with this:

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Ernest Street, Bermondsey, St Olave Southwark, London, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Lucy Gibbons - - Female 36 1835 - Sussex, England

Image says that she is 'married', an Annuitant, born in Brighton.
----------------------



1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
John Street, Brighthelmstone, Brighton, Sussex, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Mary Stallard Head Widow Female 55 1796 Washerwoman Weymouth, Dorset, England
Transcription
George Stallard Son Unmarried Male 23 1828 Labourer Brighton, Sussex, England
Transcription
Lucy Stallard Daughter Unmarried Female 19 1832 Ironer Brighton, Sussex, England
Transcription
Charlotte Langbrige Visitor Unmarried Female 19 1832 Ironer Brighton, Sussex, England



I think this is also the family on 1841 (still no William !)
1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Grosvenor Street, Brighton, Sussex, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Gender Age Birth year Birth place
Thomas Chiles Male 50 1791 Sussex, England
Transcription
Mary Chiles Female 45 1796 Sussex, England
Transcription
Mary Chiles Female 11 1830 Sussex, England
Transcription
Jane Stallard Female 20 1821 Sussex, England
Transcription
James Stallard Male 18 1823 Sussex, England
Transcription
George Stallard Male 12 1829 Sussex, England
Transcription
Lucy Stallard Female 9 1832 Sussex, England
Transcription
Edward Stallard Male 8 1833 Sussex, England
Transcription
Richard MacKford Male 75 1766 Sussex, England

On the surface it looks like Mary (her mother) married Thomas Chiles but I don't think it is the same Mary and I can't find a marriage ?? I think they are seperate households at the same address?





If this is her then her father IS a William !
Name: Lucy Stallard
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 26 Feb 1831
Baptism Place: Saint Nicholas, Brighton, Sussex, England
Father: William Stallard
Mother: Mary
FHL Film Number: 1067108


Could be her death?
Deaths Jun 1898 (>99%)
Gibbons Lucy 70 Brighton 2b 159 Scan available - click to view

She does appear to have knocked a few years off her age over time but then John was SO much younger than her?

Dea x

EDIT:
The Jane Batchelor you have her with on 1861 is her sister!

Marriages Sep 1843 (>99%)
BATCHELOR John Brighton 7 340
STALLARD Jane Brighton 7 340

Dea x

I'm doubtful about Emma Clark, unless John's YOB is badly wrong in 1851.

Re Lucy Stallard, I don't see anyone of that name born or living in London in 1861.

There's this one, as a long shot:

Lucy Stallard
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Lucy Stallard
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: 1832
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Female
Where born: N
Civil Parish: Brighton
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England
Registration district: Brighton
Sub-registration district: Kemp Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 62
Piece: 592
Folio: 105
Page Number: 11
Household Members:
Name Age
John Batchelor 57
Jane Batchelor 41
Lucy Stallard 29


I don't see her death, though.

?????

John Gibbons, Widower, Full Age, Gentleman
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 11 May 1844
Marriage Place: Saint James,Paddington,London,England
Father: George Gibbons, Gentleman
Spouse: Emma Clark, Spinster, Full Age, Father John Horne Clark, Auctioneer
FHL Film Number: 579638

Maybe?

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Boughbeach, Chiddingstone, Sevenoaks, Kent, England


Household Members

John Gibbons Head Married Male 52 1799 Annuitant Oxfordshire, England
Emma Gibbons Wife Married Female 39 1812 - Marylebone, Middlesex, England
Eliza Emily Gibbons Daughter - Female 7 1844 - St James, Middlesex, England
William Gibbons Son - Male 1 1850 - Chiddingstone, Kent, England
Henry Chatfield Servant Unmarried Male 20 1831 Servant Domestic Sussex, England
Susan Pocock Servant Unmarried Female 20 1831 House Servant Hever, Kent, England

ancestry is acting up, but the 1851 Census on FMP shows that father Charles is a Tailor ............

Charles Gibbons Head Married Male 37 1814 Tailor Kings Sutton, Northamptonshire,
Ann Gibbons Wife Married Female 36 1815 Over Worton, Oxfordshire
Edwin Gibbons Son Male 12 1839 Scholar Kings Sutton, Northamptonshire
John Gibbons Son Male 9 1842 Scholar Kings Sutton, Northamptonshire
Thomas Gibbons Son Male 7 1844 Scholar Kings Sutton, Northamptonshire
Emma Gibbons Daughter Female 5 1846 Kings Sutton, Northamptonshire
George Gibbons Son Male 2 1849 Kings Sutton, Northamptonshire

IF John's father was Charles Gibbons, and IF Charles was a tailor, then this MIGHT be a prior marriage for John

London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: John Gibbons
Spouse: Lucy Stallard
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 8 Oct 1865
Parish: St Paul, Bermondsey
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: Charles Gibbons
Spouse Father: William Stallard
Register Type: Parish Register

from image:-

John
Bachelor
Of Full Age
Occupation:- Groom
Address:- Bermondsey
Father occupation:- Tailor

Lucy
Spinster
Of Full Age
no occupation shown
Address:- (I think it says "Ditto", ie, Bermondsey)
Father occupation:- Coach Builder

Witnesses:- James Holmes and Elizabeth Butler (her mark) (I think it is Butler)

may be look for any earlier marriage for John??

Living common-law was at least as common back then as now, with one of the reasons being a previous marriage of one or both spouses and the inability to obtain a divorce for anyone other than very rich people.

Thank you all so far.
:-)

Perhaps it's simply that they didn't marry.
I certainly can't see any sign of a marriage - assuming her maiden name's Gibbons.

Thought:
Am I right in thinking that if the BC for their first born names the mother as 'formerly' Gibbons, then that is deffo her maiden name?
Or is there a chance that the 'formerly' is from a previous marriage .......... ????

I'm pretty sure that this is his Death details:
Name: John Gibbons
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1842
Registration Year: 1882
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 40
Registration district: Lambeth
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District

Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 230

We know that he died in the Royal Mews, kicked by one of the horses - oh dear. And left his wife with three young daughters.