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SylviaInCanada
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17 Jan 2016 22:41 |
Sarah
another little tip ...............
lies are told on birth, marriage and death certificates!!
They may be accidental, or deliberate, but something said on there cannot be taken as the absolute truth, because no proof had to be shown to the Minister to prove what was being said.
So, we might get one spouse or the other, or both, lying about their age, making themselves younger or older than they really are.
As far as naming the father, this one is full of pitfalls ............
an illegitimate child might "name" a father because it "looked better for the spouse's family", but they could have made up the name, given their grandfather's name (or other relative), the name of someone well-known in the town or village.
Or the mother might have passed herself off as widowed (or genuinely been a widow) and given a "name" for the "dead" husband. and the child believed that story.
The father might be declared deceased, or that word is not on the certificate so it is assumed that he is alive .................. it is quite often found that whatever is said is not true. The father left the home and the child has lost touch with him, so it is "assumed" that he is dead. Or quite simply, the Vicar did not ask the correct question ......... "and is your father still alive?".
Even the father's occupation might be "upgraded", so we find ourselves looking for "John Smith, Engineer", instead of "John Smith, Platelayer"
family history is full of pitfalls ............. and I think every one of us could tell a tale about their own family!
In my case .......... both my maternal grandparents added 2 years to their ages when they married. That made my grandmother 21 and grandfather 19 ........... which meant he was still counted as a Minor. They were also married with all family members there. So why???????? Who knows!
I'm not saying that any of the above apply in your case. nut you have to bear it in mind.
You can never ever say "I know definitely that his/her father is xxxxxxxx" because it might not be!
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Chris Ho :)
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17 Jan 2016 21:55 |
Yorkshire Marriages Transcription (Find My Past)
First name(s) Johanna Last name Darrell Age 20 Birth year 1874 Marriage year 1894 Marriage date 26 Mar 1894 Marriage place Middlesbrough, St John Residence 29 Rutland St Father's first name(s) Mark Father's last name Darrell (Deceased. Police Man) Spouse's first name(s) Frederick William Spouse's last name Axford Spouse's age 22 Spouse's residence 29 Rutland St Spouse's father's first name(s) William Spouse's father's last name Axford County Yorkshire (North Riding) Archive Teesside Archives (wits. Harry Axford, Mary J. Stones)
Chris :)
Yorkshire Baptisms Transcription (Find My Past)
First name(s) Samuel Last name Stones Baptism year 1879 Baptism date 19 Aug 1879 Baptism place Middlesbrough Denomination Anglican Father's first name(s) John Mother's first name(s) Sarah County Yorkshire (North Riding) Archive Teesside Archives (Abode, 13 Hilda Place. John occ. Labourer)
(also as above, Mary Jane Stones, 1st May 1877, 13 Hilda Place, John, occ. Labourer)
Yorkshire Baptisms Transcription (Find My Past)
First name(s) Thomas Last name Darrell Baptism year 1867 Baptism date 15 Dec 1867 Baptism place Swinefleet Denomination Anglican Father's first name(s) Mark Father's occupation Policeman Mother's first name(s) Sarah County Yorkshire (West Riding)
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Rambling
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17 Jan 2016 21:23 |
Just going back to Sarah after she became 'Stones', here in 1891 she has her daughter Births Jun 1873 (>99%) Darrell Joanna Storm Stockton 10a 67
but listed as married and name seems to be Dorset? but there's no likely marriage
Sarah Stones in the 1891 England Census
Name: Sarah Stones Age: 51 Estimated birth year: abt 1840 Relation: Wife Spouse's Name: John Stones Gender: Female Where born: Middlesborough, Yorkshire, England Civil Parish: Middlesborough Ecclesiastical parish: St John Town: Middlesborough County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Street address:
Occupation:
View image Registration district: Middlesbrough ED, institution, or vessel: 25 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 4007 Folio: 137 Page Number: 37 Household Members: Name Age John Stones 53 Sarah Stones 51 Joannah Dorret 18 James Stones 14 Sam Stones 13 Ellen M Stones 5
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Sarah
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17 Jan 2016 21:13 |
I have the marriage certificate for Lily Heslop when she married Alfred Laroche so I know Edward Heslop is her father. So I know that the census with Edward and Mary Heslop and their two daughters are definitely my ancestors.
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Gee
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17 Jan 2016 20:55 |
Maybe it would help if you give us your 'true, exact' last term of reference to your ancestor(s)
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Sarah
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17 Jan 2016 20:24 |
So are you thinking that Mark may not be Mary's father? What about the fact that his name is on her marriage certificate? Thanks for that information. I'm still quite a novice and all tips are very helpful.
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SylviaInCanada
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17 Jan 2016 19:22 |
Sarah .............
just one thing that you might not be aware of ................
When registering a baby , if a woman was married, any baby she had was considered to be the child of her husband unless she specifically stated that he was not the father and gave the name of the father.
In fact, if you look at a birth certificate, the baby is not given a surname ............. if a father is named then the baby automatically takes his name. If no father is named, the baby takes the name of the mother.
There have been some slight changes in recent years, but the same basic assumption is still made.
Therefore a widow could have a baby years after her husband died, and unless she stated that specifically, the baby would be registered under her married name and the father would be assumed to be her husband.
I once found a registration for a child born 10 years after the husband had died.
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Sarah
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17 Jan 2016 19:07 |
That's a very interesting article, thanks for that. The article about Mark Darrell, also about Sarah's remarriage.
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Rambling
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17 Jan 2016 19:03 |
Remarriage for Sarah ( though I can't see a marriage?)
1881 Name: Geo H . Darrell Age: 15 Estimated birth year: abt 1866 Relationship to Head: Step Son Mother: Sarah Stones Gender: Male Where born: Swinfleet, Yorkshire, England Civil Parish: Middlesbrough County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Street address: No 11 Durham St Hilda Place Education:
Employment status:
View image Occupation: Labr Iron Works Registration district: Middlesbrough ED, institution, or vessel: 6 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 4846 Folio: 121 Page Number: 28 Household Members: Name Age Jno. Stones 44 Sarah Stones 41 Jno Darrell 19 Geo H. Darrell 15 Thos. Darrell 13 Johana Darrell 7 Mary J. Stones 4 Saml. Stones 1
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Chris Ho :)
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17 Jan 2016 18:42 |
http://tinyurl.com/gwqoa9x
(above article relating to Death of Mark Darrell 1869)
(AUGUST 1869 Mark Darrell had been a police officer in StocktonuponTees and was hurt in the line of duty in an incident that had left him paralysed and)
Chris :)
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Rambling
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17 Jan 2016 17:38 |
Buying the birth cert for either Lily or Frances will give you mother's maiden name if you are unsure of it being Darrell but the marriage that Andy has posted is the only one that comes up on freebmd.
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Sarah
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17 Jan 2016 17:30 |
I'm hoping that Mary Darrell is the right person, you'll all kill me if I'm wrong there. I know that Edward Heslop is correct, his daughters are definitely Lily and Francis and his wife Mary. The only Mary who I can find who seems to fit with the marriage dates is Mary Darrell which is why I'm fairly sure that it's Mary Darrell who married Edward Heslop.
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Andrew
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17 Jan 2016 17:26 |
The Mary in 1871. was born as Frances Mary E Darrell and dies in 1885, so not right person.
Andy
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Andrew
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17 Jan 2016 17:22 |
This might be marriage for Henry and Ann. Children in 1871 seem a little young for someone married 17 years
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marriages Dec 1854 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Darrell Henry York 9d 31 May Ann York 9d 31
Andy
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Sarah
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17 Jan 2016 17:13 |
Thanks everyone, I'm obviously wrong about her birth, then, that was the one that seemed to fit in with her date of birth. It's strange, though, that if Mark is her father he died before she was meant to be born unless she was conceived and born the year after his death. Would that work?
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Andrew
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17 Jan 2016 17:05 |
1871
Any connection with Mark? Brothers maybe?
Name:Mary Darrell Age:3 Estimated birth year:abt 1868 Relation:Niece Gender:Female Where born:York, Yorkshire, England Civil Parish:St Peter the Little County/Island:Yorkshire Country:England Registration district:York Sub-registration district:Bootham ED, institution, or vessel:20 Household schedule number:59 Piece:4745 Folio:81 Page Number:12 Household Members: Name Age
Tom Darrell 42 Born Stockton Henry Darrell 38 Ann Darrell 38 Tom Darrell 5 Mary Darrell 3 Andy
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Rambling
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17 Jan 2016 16:52 |
Mark Darrell in the UK, Lunacy Patients Admission Registers, 1846-1912
Name: Mark Darrell Gender: Male Admission Date: 22 May 1869 Institution: W. York Intitution Place: West Yorkshire, England Death Date: 5 Sep 1869 Death Place: West Yorkshire, England
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Rambling
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17 Jan 2016 16:50 |
date of birth is a little out if it's him?
Name: Mark Darrell Age: 13 Estimated birth year: abt 1828 Gender: Male Where born: Yorkshire, England Civil Parish: Stockton On The Forest Hundred: Bulmer County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Street address:
Occupation:
View image Registration district: York Sub-registration district: Dunnington Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 1242 Book: 8 Folio: 6 Page Number: 7 Household Members: Name Age William Darrell 40 Annah Darrell 40 Mark Darrell 13 Henry Darrell 8 Maria Darrell 5 George Darrell 2
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Rambling
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17 Jan 2016 16:45 |
1863 West Yorkshire, England, Police Records, 1833-1914 for Mark Darrell Name: Mark Darrell Age: 32 Birth Date: abt 1831 Birth Place: York, Yorkshire, England Event Date: 14 Sep 1863 Event Place: West Riding, England Reference: WYP1/A139/5 Force: West Riding Constabulary Year Range or Title: 1861-1864 Examination Book E
Gives a detailed description of him( on Ancestry) he had been in the 5th Dragoon guards ( till 1857), which may be why I can't find him in 1851?
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Rambling
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17 Jan 2016 16:39 |
Marriages Sep 1858 (>99%) Darrell Mark Stockton 10a 139 Hughes Sarah Stockton 10a 139
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