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You're very welcome Frances.

All the info we have found seems to fit together well, but I would advise buying a copy of the birth certificate of Emma, if it is her that you are following. I know that they are expensive but if you want your tree to be 100% correct then it's always best to confirm information found.

I'm just wondering why Benjamin Alexander was listed under the name of Saunders in the 1861 census. It may of course be an error on the enumerators part but I guess we'll never know.

Anything else that you need?

Hope you have a nice Christmas.
Regards Catherine

Hi Catherine,
How can I refuse such a generous offer!

As you say, yesterday was most successful in finding the Overtons and I set them all out on a piece of paper before adding them to the tree. When I tried to repeat this method for the Alexanders I was unable to see Esther Elizabeths' parents. I have tried looking for brother George, Itteringham 1834 in IGI but nothing is coming up. Have you got your crystal ball to hand?

Many thanks,
Frances

Thinking about it some more, the info could be in the 1841 census as George would be only 6/7 and surely still at home? Itteringham is close to Aylsham, the district for Esther Elizabeth's marriage :-

Marriages Dec 1851
Overton John Aylsham
13 29

ALEXANDER Elizabeth Aylesham
13 29

Just going through the 15 pages of Word file I see I already have the 1841 Census quoting Benjamin Alexander as the father so I just need to get his marriage to find his wifes name. Sorry, the little grey cells are in trouble again.....

No, its not the right family for George being born in 1834, from the 1871 census when his 2 Overton nephews are present.

Not sure if you are looking for Benjamin's wife's name or George's, but ......

This looks to be George's marriage:-

Marriages Sep 1856 (>99%)
Alexander George Aylsham 4b 139
BARWICK Abel Aylsham 4b 139
BARWICK Mary Aylsham 4b 139
Roofe Mary Ann Aylsham 4b 139

As Mary isn't shown on any censue records with a middle name, I would guess that her mmn is Barwick but you would need the cert. to be sure.

I have been looking for George on the 1861 census and interestingly, this looks to be him under the name of Saunders:-



Name: George Saunders
Age: 31
Estimated birth year: 1830
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Saunders
Gender: Male
Where born: Itteringham, Norfolk, England
Civil Parish: Itteringham
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England
Street address: Common
Occupation: Labourer
Registration district: Aylsham
Sub-registration district: Eynsford
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 7
Piece: 1205
Folio: 65
Page Number: 10
Household Members:
Name Age
George Saunders 31
Mary Saunders 28 - born: Itteringham, Norfolk (1833)
Sarah Saunders 4
Martha Saunders 3
Caroline Saunders 1

Would love to know where this name comes from and why it keeps popping up.

Children are all noted under the name of Alexander:-

Name: Sarah Charlotte Alexander
Registration Year: 1856
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: Aylsham
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Norfolk
Volume: 4b
Page: 77

Name: Martha Ann Alexander
Registration Year: 1858
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: Aylsham
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Norfolk
Volume: 4b
Page: 69

Name: Caroline Alexander
Registration Year: 1859
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: Aylsham
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Norfolk
Volume: 4b
Page: 79

Births Jun 1868 (>99%)
ALEXANDER Blanche Mary S. Shields 10a 691
Alexander Blanche Mary South Shields 10a 697
(not sure why this is noted twice)

Births Dec 1870 (>99%)
Alexander Alice Jane S.Shields 10a 683

1881

Name: George K. Alexander
[George Robert Alexander]
Age: 52
Estimated birth year: abt 1829
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Mary Alexander
Gender: Male
Where born: Itteringham, Norfolk, England
Civil Parish: Hedworth Monkton and Jarrow
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street address: (42) Newmarch St
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Gas Stoker (Wks)
Registration district: South Shields
ED, institution, or vessel: 24
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 5024
Folio: 90
Page Number: 9
Household Members:
Name Age
George K. Alexander 52
Mary Alexander 49
Blanch M. Alexander 12
Alice J. Alexander 10
George R. Alexander 6
John S. Stephenson 37 (Lodger)
Jane Stephenson 29
Isabella Stephenson


1891
Name: Mary Alexander
Age: 57
Estimated birth year: abt 1834
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Itteringham, Norfolk, England
Civil Parish: Hedworth Monkton and Jarrow
Ecclesiastical parish: Jarrow Grange
Town: Jarrow
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage: Widow
Registration district: South Shields
ED, institution, or vessel: 27
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4167
Folio: 139
Page Number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Alexander 57
Alice Alexander 20
George Alexander 16
Patrice H Devlin 22
Lena Devlin 1
Hannah Coe 10
Martin Fletley 47

I remain confused as I think this 1871 census holds the key ?

" hang on a bit, this may throw some light on things.

Sons William and George are missing from 1871 census but they are with their uncle:-

Name: William Overton
Age: 19
Estimated birth year: abt 1852
Relation: Nephew
Gender: Male
Where born: Itteringham, Norfolk, England
Civil Parish: Hedworth Monkton and Yarrow
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
Town: Jarrow
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Registration district: South Shields
Sub-registration district: South Shields
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Household schedule number: 128
Piece: 5041
Folio: 89
Page Number: 25
Household Members:
Name Age
George Allexander 37 born: Itteringham, Norfolk (1834)
Mary Allexander 34
Sarah C Allexander 14
Martha A Allexander 13
Caroline Allexander 12
Blanch Allexander 3
Alice J Allexander 4 Months

xxxxxx William Overton 19
xxxxxx George Overton 18

William Ayton 21

...................and his surname is Alexander!!!!!!!!!!!!! "

Is there something in here which is incorrect?

Just had a look at 1861 census to see if I could find any proof of who married who on 1856 marriage and it would seem that this is the other couple from the same record:-
1861
Household Members:
Name Age
Abed Barwick 32
Mary Ann Barwick 28
William Barwick 8
Elizabeth Barwick 3
Stephen Barwick 5/12

..........which seems to shows that George Alexander probably did marry Mary Barwick.

Sorry frances didn't notice your post straight away.

What is it that is confusing you?

The 1871 census shows Elizabeth (Esther) and John Overton's sons staying with their uncle.
From the 1841 census George Alexander does look to be the brother of Elizabeth as father is Benjamin and his occupation is Tailor, which fits with Elizabeth's marriage certificate.

The 1871 census also shows their tree eldest daughters are Sarah Blanche and Caroline, names and ages that fit with the above 1861 census. Even if the family are under the name of Saunders I am certain that this is the same family,

I am just wondering why the name Saunders keeps popping up?

If you have any doubts at all I would advise, as I said earlier, to buy the birth certificate of one of their children to make sure that the mothers maiden name is Alexander.

What worries me the most is that George, in 1871 says that he was born in 1834 whereas some of the other posts have census for other members of the family where George is shown as early as 1829. How can it be the same person?

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~tinstaafl/Church_Pages/itteringham.htm

http://www.freereg.org.uk/

(George probably the Robert George on above, links also posted earlier!)

Chris :)

This is the post Chris refers to:-

05/07/1829 Robert George ALEXANDER Benjamin ALEXANDER Tailor Martha

I wouldn't worry too much about the ages not being the same from one census to another.
Don't forget that a lot of people were illiterate in those days so it wasn't unusal that they got their ages wrong and it's not impossible that the enumerators made mistakes and wrote things down wrongly.
People moving around the country looking for work, had different accents to those of the places they ended up at and so the enumerator may not have understood correctly what they were being told.
There are lots of reasons why this could happen so I wouldn't worry too much if I were you.
I have found in doing my own research that you do have to keep an open mind with this family tree business. :-)

Hi Chris, I followed the link you gave me to St Mary's Itterinham and I did pick up

05/07/1829 Robert George ALEXANDER Benjamin ALEXANDER Tailor Martha

so do we now believe he is George of 1871 claiming to be born in 1834 - he does seem to get older again in later census!

If I take this on board most of my niggles get ironed out

Thank you Catherine also, I will now be more relaxed about these difference and end up with a fantastic tree even if I still can't find Benjamin Alexander being born c.1794. Is he the one who says he comes from London?

Well, would say that was him...that's where Birth and Marriage Certs. are needed...

One 'niggle' that needs ironing out, as you put is, is that Birth Cert. of below, to see Maiden name of Mother!.

Births Sep 1865 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------
OVERTON Emma Aylsham 4b 77

Chris :)

Tomorrow is the 20 week scan for my new grandchild. If it is a boy I might be able to persuade our financial controller that we should splash out on that birth certificate for Emma Overton!

Couldn't see anything for Benjamin but I do believe that this is his wife Martha:-

Name: Martha Hannant
Birth Date: 31 Oct 1796
Birth Place: Norfolk, England
Gender: Female
Event Type: Birth
Father: Wm Ward Hannant
Mother: Sarah Smith
Denomination: Baptist
Piece Title: Piece 0641: Buxton Chapel (Baptist), 1794-1837

siblings baptised on the same day:-
Robert Smith b.31st Aug 1794
Richard Hannant b. 06 Nov.1799
Eliza Ann b. 19th Mar 1802
William (Clark?) b. 21 Aug 1808
Sarah b. 7th Jun 1810
Sophia b. 23 May 1814
Mathilda b. 5 Oct 1817

Thank you Catherine, perhaps looking foe Martha's marriage in IGI might be more successful. If she and Benjamin got married when she was 21, in 1817, that would be good for Sophia being born 1819, I think it was.

When you are happy that you have extracted everything for this thread I can give you the new subject of

Births Mar 1890
Adams Grace Beatrice Bradford, Y.
9b 167

just to keep you occupied !!?? lol

Sorry Frances but I'm off to England for a week in the morning so not sure if I'll have time to look up Grace.

As it's a new name I would suggest starting a new thread so that more helpers can take a look and give you a hand.

Good luck with the scan, hope all goes well.

Merry Christmas :-)