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Trying to find birth of Ellen, dad was William a publican. Can't find family in any census. She married Charles York in 1885

:-\

Presume this is the marriage you refer to, which is in Aston.

As you haven't found a census - Have you the certificate to know she was born 1857 Aston or are you working on the assumption she was born in Aston because that is where she married.

England & Wales marriages 1837-2008 Transcription

First name(s) CHARLES
Last name YORK
Marriage quarter 3
Marriage year 1884
MarriageFinder™ CHARLES YORK married one of these people
JANE HARRIS, ELLEN LETITIA SMITH
District ASTON
District number -
County Warwickshire
Country England
Volume 6D
Page 379

could this be them 1871 census
Ellen Smith
Age: 11
Estimated birth year: abt 1860
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: William Smith
Mother's name: Ellen Smith
Gender: Female
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Civil Parish: Aston
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
Town: Duddeston cum Nechells
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Registration district: Aston
Sub-registration district: Duddeston
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Household schedule number: 175
Piece: 3145
Folio: 18
Page Number: 29
Household Members:
Name Age
William Smith 38
Ellen Smith 39
William Thomas Smith 16
Jane Smith 14
Catharine Hannah Smith 13
Ellen Smith 11
Edwin Hadley Smith 6
Alfred G Smith 4
Ann E G Smith 2
SAVE

The 1871 posted by Moira from FMP - if William's trade is from the marriage certificate, there no reason he couldn't be a Publican by 1885.

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Northumberland Street, Aston, Warwickshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
William Smith Head - Male 38 1833 - Warwickshire, England <<<<<<<<Labourer
Ellen Smith Wife - Female 39 1832 - Worcestershire, England
William Thomas Smith Son - Male 16 1855 - Warwickshire, England
Jane Smith Daughter - Female 14 1857 - Warwickshire, England
Catherine Hannah Smith Daughter - Female 12 1859 - Warwickshire, England
Ellen Smith Daughter - Female 11 1860 - Warwickshire, England
Edwin Hadley Smith Son - Male 6 1865 - Warwickshire, England
Alfred G Smith Son - Male 4 1867 - Warwickshire, England
Ann E G Smith Daughter - Female 2 1869 - Warwickshire, England

EDIT -
1881 - family found 33 Viaduct Street, Aston - William is a Railway Goods Guard
1891 - St James St, Aston - still a Railway Guard

Wonder if this is connected?

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

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Marriages Mar 1893 (>99%)
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Spencer Julius Thomas Middlesbro' 9d 671
York Ellen Letitia Middlesbro' 9d 671


This Ellen died 1898, birth shows as c1862

Andy

looks like Charles York died and she remarried. Don't suppose it says where she was born in 1862

This is the only Ellen Letitia Smith birth reg. (any others are Ellen L or Ellen). Depending when in Q3 she was born, she could be aged 36 in Q3 1898.

As per census, the maths is done simply i.e. 1898 - 36 = b 1862, but she could have been born in 1861. And of course, age is as known to the informant of the death.

England & Wales births 1837-2006 Transcription

First name(s) ELLEN LETITIA
Last name SMITH
Birth year 1861
Birth quarter 3
Registration month -
Mother's last name -
District MIDHURST
County Sussex
Country England
Volume 2B
Page 324

Marilyn -
As per my questions at 1858 - what makes you think she was born 1857 in Aston and that her Father was William a publican. Please give us ALL the info that you know. How have you got back to her?

doesn't look like the correct one greyghost , wrong parents.
Ellen Letitia Smith
England Births and Christenings
Name Ellen Letitia Smith
Gender Female
Christening Date 06 Oct 1861
Christening Place , Sussex, England
Father's Name Richard Smith
Mother's Name Letitia

sorry greyghost this coud be the one you found but no parents mentioned

Name Ellen Letitia Smith
Event Type Birth Registration
Registration Quarter Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration Year 1861
Registration District Midhurst
County Sussex
Event Place Midhurst, Sussex, England
Volume 2B
Page 324
Line Number 144

need a bit more info. to help here.does it give the address for her on her marriage cert.

Marilyn knows how to get back to the thread and how to post - without more info I don't think we can go any further at the moment................

Moira, that's the birth Reg I posted.

The family would appear to be in Rogate, Midhurst on the 1861 census, Richard is an Ag. Lab. so probably a non-starter on name and occupation fronts.

Andy, here's that marriage you found. He was a boiler smith of Cheetham Street and his father was also a boiler smith.
She was a widow of Vicker's Strret, Grangetown. Her father was a deceased publican.



Yorkshire Marriages Transcription
Print transcription View image
First name(s) Julius Thomas
Last name Spencer
Age 26
Birth year 1867
Marriage year 1893
Marriage date 18 Feb 1893
Marriage place Eston
Residence Grangetown
Father's first name(s) William
Father's last name Spencer
Spouse's first name(s) Ellen Letitia
Spouse's last name York
Spouse's age 31
Spouse's residence Grangetown
Spouse's father's first name(s) William
Spouse's father's last name Smith
County Yorkshire (North Riding)
Country England
Archive Teesside Archives
Archive reference PR/EST 1/17
Page 128

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
1 Sea View Terrace Grangetown Yorkshire, Eston, Yorkshire, England

Learn more
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Occupation Age Birth year Birth place
Frank Watson Head Married Male Boiler Rivetter 43 1868 Branch End Eston Junction Yorkshire
Transcription
Maud Lousia Watson Wife Married Female - 41 1870 Woodside Worcestershire
Transcription
John William Watson Son Single Male Labourer Steel Works 21 1890 Grangetown Eston Yorks
Transcription
Frank Watson Son Single Male Labourer Steel Works 19 1892 Grangetown Eston Yorks
Transcription
Herbert Watson Son Single Male Errand Boy Steel Works 15 1896 Grangetown Eston Yorks
Transcription
Harry Watson Son - Male School 13 1898 Grangetown Eston Yorks
Transcription
Victor Watson Son - Male School 11 1900 Grangetown Eston Yorkshire
Transcription
George Watson Son - Male School 10 1901 Grangetown Eston Yorkshire
Transcription
Maggie Watson Daughter - Female School 6 1905 Grangetown Eston Yorkshire
Transcription
Annie Watson Daughter - Female School 4 1907 Grangetown Eston Yorkshire
Transcription
Spencer Watson Son - Male - 3 1908 Grangetown Eston Yorkshire
Transcription
Reuben Watson Son - Male - 0 1911 Grangetown Eston Yorkshire
Transcription
>>Juiluis Thomas Spencer Boarder Widower Male Electric Crane Driver 43 1868 Middlesbro Yorkshire
Transcription
Elizabeth Spencer Boarder Single Female - 18 1893 Grangetown Eston Yorkshire

Yorkshire Baptisms Transcription
Print transcription View image
First name(s) Elizabeth
Last name Spencer
Birth year 1893
Birth date 29 Mar 1893
Baptism year 1894
Baptism date 17 Sep 1894
Baptism place Grangetown
Denomination Anglican
Father's first name(s) Julius Thomas, boiler smith of 104 Vicker's Street
Mother's first name(s) Helena Letitia
County Yorkshire (North Riding)
Country England
Archive Teesside Archives
Archive reference PR/GN 1/2
Page 6

England & Wales deaths 1837-2007 Transcription
First name(s) ELLEN LETITIA
Last name SPENCER
Gender Female
Birth year 1862
Age 36
Death quarter 3
Death year 1898
District MIDDLESBROUGH
County Yorkshire
Volume 9D Page 431

(a check in 'Search All Member Trees', Marilyn has below!)

Chris :)

Relation Name: Ellen Smith
Date of Birth: 1859
Place of Birth: Birmingham, England

Birmingham, England, Baptisms, 1813-1912

Name: Minnie Louisa York
Birth Date: 19 Mar 1885
Baptism Date: 8 Apr 1885
Baptism Place: Duddeston, St Matthew, Warwickshire, England
Father: Charles York (policeman)
Mother: Helena Letitia York
Reference Number: EP 66/2/2/3
Archive Roll: Reel 6

Address: 1 Henry Street
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1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
16, Station Road, South Bank, Normanby, Middlesbrough, Yorkshire, England

Robert Forrester Head Married Male 56 1845 Grocer Shopkeeper Salford, Lancashire
Mary E Forrester Wife Married Female 36 1865 - Yorkshire, England
Minnie L York Servant Single Female 16 1885 General Servant (Domestic) Birmingham, Warw
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1891- transciptions are off from actual image

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Henry Street, Nechells, Aston, Warwickshire, England

Thomas Coleman Head Married Male 38 1853 Brewery Labourer Wiltshire,England
Emma Coleman Wife Married Female 40 1851 - Ansty, Wiltshire, England
Adelaide E Allen Daughter In Law Single Female 20 1871 Laundress Tiddington, Wiltshire, England Transcription
Minnie T (Image says L) York Boarder Single Female 6 1885 Scholar Aston, Warwickshire,
Betsy E Pinchback Boarder Single Female 54 1837 Sick Nurse Friskney, Lincolnshire

01 May 1914 - Daily Gazette for Middlesbrough - Middlesbrough, North

SPENCER - On April 28th, at I, Sea View-terrace. Grangetown, Julius T. Spencer, the dearly-beloved husband the late Ellen Spencer. Cortege leaving above address, 3 o’clock, for Eston, Saturday May 2nd. Friends kindly invited.

Chris :)