Find Ancestors

Well, you must think what you will, but yokel has found additional information that was not available here so he/ she has not wasted their time, but added new facts to what was already known. I did tell yokel that I had obtained information from another source in reply to a question he asked, and he seemed perfectly ok with this. I've finished this with this now, so there's nothing more to say except to thank everyone on this thread for their help.

(admits to having seen that James Wanford Baptism last night, but...was holding back until FMP 'fixed' their Newspaper access, to view below, which was still not working early this morning!, now is!)

Chris :)

06 September 1788 - Norfolk Chronicle - Norwich, Norfolk, England

WHEREAS I JAMES WANFORD, Toll Keeper at Colney Toll Gate, did on the second Day of September violently assault and ill treat Messrs. John and.Charles Tuthill of Norwich, without any cause or provocation whatever, and they having commenced a Prosecution against me for the said assault, in consideration of my Family, have agreed to stop the same, on my publicly asking Pardon in the Norwich papers on the 6th inst., which I hereby with, and promise never to offend in the like manner any more. JAMES WANFORD


http://www.cringleford.com/history/history.shtm

(The Norwich to Thetford Turnpike Trust had been formed to improve the road for travellers and this was paid for by tolls. The toll gate on the Cringleford to Hethersett section of the road was placed on Cringleford Bridge which had been widened by 6 ft earlier in the century but was still narrow. The first mail coach service from London to Norfolk began in 1784.)


Burial
County Norfolk
Place Saxlingham Nethergate
Church St Mary
RegisterNumber 381
BurialDate 14 Aug 1884
Forename Rebecca
Surname CLARKE
Age 90
Abode Swainsthorpe Union House

http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl


http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Henstead/Henstead1881.shtml

(if her on above)

http://www.origins.org.uk/genuki/NFK/places/s/swainsthorpe


edits (well done to The Yokel, very often see names 'there' that used to be 'here' in the good ol' days, lol)

magpie, The Yokel at rootschat has just put considerable effort into finding and posting information that is already in this thread, every bit of it

except that The Yokel has accessed the will Chris advised that you obtain, and found that there was a James Jr ... who is still unaccounted for in any other record


it really was unfair of you not to inform the rootschatters that you had almost all that information before The Yokel did that, I'm afraid



as for the workhouse, it was not at all uncommon for someone who had reached an advanced age, and undoubtedly infirmity, to have to take refuge there ... family may not have been available, or may not have had the financial or other means to care for them

I have a grx2 grandfather who was a prosperous tradesperson in one county while his father apparently spent two decades in a workhouse in another county

in that case I think they may simply have lost contact with each other many years before ... but I have one or two other grx2 or 3 grandfathers who also ended their days in a workhouse, a function of being elderly former agricultural or industrial workers (i.e. poor) who, I'm pretty confident, just could not be cared for at home

Hi, I have just had some very interesting info from RootsChat, that throws another light on this 'scoundral'. This makes interesting reading! Poor Rebecca ended her days in the workhouse at Swainthorpe! Life was very tough for the majority in those days.

ah but one day when the itch strikes, you may go hunting for your Wainford ancestors ... despite the fact that the last of them may have been a cad

his mother was probably lovely :-)

It could well be as you say. I had it written in some notes about JW. birth, but I could well be wrong, and he was the chap who died in 1837. This would be how young James acquired his 10 acres. My main quest was confirming JL's parentage which I have managed to do, the rest is slightly academic, as I'm not going any further back into the Wainford family. Anyhow thanks for your help.

magpie, go back over the thread :-)

was the idea that your James Wainford was born in 1800 not just an assumption based on when his son, your ancestor, was born?

there just isn't any record of a James born 1800ish, birth death or marriage

the one who died in 1837 would have been 60 when he begat your James Lynes, and if young James's mother was indeed a household servant, this would not be too surprising ... exploitation of young domestic workers was not rare


I crossed in the post with Chris, I agree that I would get hold of the will
That James seems to have had surviving sons John and George (I see now that Mike posted the poll book information I referred to above, early in the thread) but no sign of a James

(just to add those two Baptism details)

Births Mar 1845 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------
Lines Charles Henstead 13 176


Baptism
County Norfolk
Place Saxlingham Nethergate
Church St Mary
RegisterNumber 708
DateOfBirth 08 Jan 1845
BaptismDate 11 May 1845
Forename Charles
Sex M
FatherForename James
MotherForename Elizabett
FatherSurname LINES
Abode Saxlingham
FatherOccupation Husbandman


Births Dec 1846 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------
Lines James Henstead 13 155


Baptism
County Norfolk
Place Saxlingham Nethergate
Church St Mary
RegisterNumber 741
DateOfBirth 29 Sep 1846
BaptismDate 04 Apr 1847
Forename James
Sex M
FatherForename James
MotherForename Elizabeth
FatherSurname LINES
Abode Saxlingham
FatherOccupation Husbandman

(above 1851, Stubbs Green, Shotesham All Saints, Henstead, Norfolk, with below)


Births Jun 1850 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------
Lines Isaac Henstead 13 178


Baptism
County Norfolk
Place Shotesham
Church St Mary Tr
RegisterNumber 282
DateOfBirth
BaptismDate 19 May 1850
Forename Isaac
FatherForename James
MotherForename Elizabeth
FatherSurname LINES
FatherOccupation Labourer

Chris :)

(would get hold of below)

Norwich Consistory Court Probate Records
Catalogue Ref NCC will register Warren 318
Title Wainford, James, farmer, of Saxlingham
Date 1837
Description Will.
Level Item
Repository Norfolk Record Office

http://tinyurl.com/qx9qbgp

I'm sorry, I probably over reacted. The James that died in 1837 was aged 78, so I think must have been the father of my James W who was born around 1800, Illegitimate son was born in 1820. Rebecca married in 1821 and had more children, but sadly ended her life in the workhouse at Swainthorpe aged 90!! I have been curious to know when JW died before Rebecca.

btw here is a reference to James Wainford that might be interesting, that I ran across while googling and then forgot to open, if you haven't seen it before

http://tinyurl.com/q2cb3o3

The Poll for two Knights of the Shire for the Western Division of the County of Norfolk
taken on the 1st and 2d of August 1837

... ah but that would be a son of your James I imagine, since he had died earlier in 1837 ... no ... unless the list was an old one, which is quite likely I imagine

the only other Wainford listed is John also at Saxlingham Nethergate


genuki has the 1802 register that would refer to your James

http://www.origins.org.uk/genuki/NFK/norfolk/voting/poll1802/henstead.shtml

I don't think it's too hard to understand ... my suggestion would be that you let the kind people at rootschat know that the matter has been resolved since as of today's date the question was still open there with a reply today (with the information that James Wainford died after 1837 for some reason ... I admit to not having read the entire thread)

it's only fair really

I'm not upset, I wasn't asking you to make anything an issue, and I'm not asking you to discuss anything

Well, I'm very sorry to have upset you, but no one on RootsChat unfortunately were able to help on this particular query, if they had, I would not have posted it here!! I am extremely grateful for the help I've received both on here and on Roots Chat, particularly to Chris ho, who resolved a particular sticky problem. At no time have I dragooned anyone into helping, (as if I could!!) so I don't quite understand your comments. I have no intention of making this an issue, and won't be discussing with you any further.

not sure I understand that ... what I mean is the effort being put out by those helping who do not know what has already been found or considered by others and may be spending time doing research already done, or looking for things in the wrong places because they don't know what has already been found ... same as with duplicate threads at this board for instance ...

Not to worry, it's not that important, as it's only a footnote in my research. Thank you anyway for your interest.

the thread at rootschat is going on simultaneously with this one?

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=475323.36

it doesn't help helpers at either place not to know what is being said in the other place

This is likely James Wainford's widow and son in 1841 in Nethergate Saxlingham

George Wainford 26 dealer cattle
Mary Wainford 20
George Wainford 1
Mary Wainford 65 independent means

what information is there that he was at the 1843 wedding?

he is named on that record, but people did not always say their father was deceased

is the death info posted by Chris not likely correct?
... unfortunately just months before registration started, and before the first census

OMG! What a conundrum!!! I will try and follow this up though, and thankyou for the info. There's just one other thing I'm trying to discover and that is the death of illegitimate James's father! He was there in 1843 for his sons wedding, but I can't find any evidence of his death. BMD's only have someone of the same name coming from Epsom, and that can't be him! Any ideas?!! Thanks for all your help and interest!!

hi magpie, I think the 'controversy' would arise from this marriage

Marriages Mar 1844
BENSLEY Sarah Norwich 13 411
? BRIGHTIN Elizabeth Norwich 13 411
BRUNDELL George Norwich 13 411
COOKE William Chapman Norwich 13 411
HOWLETT Sarah Ann Norwich 13 411
> LYNES James Norwich 13 411
SELF James Norwich 13 411
WHITELOCK Sarah Norwich 13 411

but unless someone actually obtained the marriage certificate or found a record elsewhere, there is no way to tell whom that James Lynes married out of that list of four women, and clearly now it was not your James Lynes :-)

Again thank you. I shall have a look!