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Unfortunately, censuses are like that.

And if we do find the marriage, there's every chance he will be described as "full age" which won't hep either.

Jude

O K I'll try that . Been trying to trace John Thomas birth or death records but I don't know his correct age . The 1881 census gives it as 80 which would mean he was born around 1880 -1881 but the census Marie celeste has found says he was born in 1816 and the other census all give different dates of birth

Yes but as MC asked "how do you know Elizabeth's maiden name was Thomas"?

The only way you can be sure is to buy one of their children's birth certificates. Until then, and as it is such as common name, you cannot be sure.

Jude

The wedding I have been trying to trace is Margaret's parents John and Elizabeth .On the 1881 census John's age is 80 and Elizabeth is 50 On the 1891 census Elizabeth (named as Betsy ) is a widow . I am not sure if I do have the right census for 1851 as the age gap is different but Margaret's age fits .
I found the wedding record of John Thomas and Margaret Thomas on find my past and the person from Bridgend Family history , said there was a wedding of those two in Swansea in 1852 but Sylvia has proved him wrong unless there is another one.

You really need Margaret's birth certificate which will confirm her parents names

Jude

Editing as I go along ....O. K The definite information I have is the wedding certificate of George and Margaret
First October 1883 George Thomas 28 batchelor general labourer Oldcastle Bridgend Father George Thomas (Deceased )
Margaret Thomas 24 Spinster Oldcastle Bridgend Father John Thomas (deceased )
Margarets family in1881 census is the one you have posted here . she is with her parents
and two children John and William Huxtable Children before her marriage to George . John is my great grandfather . his birth certificate is Alfred John Huxtable but three months later he was baptised as John Thomas . the name he always used . he was brought up by his grandparents . William was brought up by Margaret and George . There is no fathers name on his birth certificate . and apart from the 1881 census he is listed as William Thomas

To reiterate the questions previously asked:

How do you know Elizabeth's maiden name of Thomas - is it from one of the children's birth certificates?

How do you know the year of marriage as 1852?

It helps us to help you if we know what background information you have.

This is that 1851 census (this one's from FindMyPast but it's also on Ancestry)

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Cowbridge Road, Coyty, Bridgend, Glamorganshire, Wales

Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place

John Thomas Head Married Male 35 1816 Hawker Devon, England
Rachal Thomas Wife Married Female 38 1813 - Somerset, England
Mary Thomas Daughter - Female 9 1842 - Glamorgan, Wales
John William Lodger Unmarried Male 50 1801 - Gloucestershire, England

HI Marie Celeste . I cannot find the census you mentioned with John married to Rachel . Does it give his birthplace as Devon?

Thhis is an Elizabeth Thomas of about the right age, living in Wenvoe on the 1841 Census .............. BUT she is a Female Servant working for a farmer, so no sign of her father.

You do have to remember that most people would have been out at work well before the age of 15. In fact the 2 Morgan boys are down as Servants

1841 Census

Name: Elizebeth Thomas
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1829
Gender: Female
Where born: Glamorgan, Wales
Civil Parish: Wenvoe
Hundred: Dinas Powis
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration district: Cardiff
Sub-registration district: St Nicholas

Piece: 1417
Book: 27
Folio: 12
Page Number: 18

Mathew Hampton 15
Mary Thomas 15
Elisabeth Morgan 15
William Morgan 11
John Morgan 5
Elizebeth Thomas 12 <<<<<<<<<<<<


They all seem to be working for a farmer named John Williams, but are living in a separate part of the farm.


also on the 1841 Census

Name: Gronow Thomas
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1806
Gender: Male
Where born: Glamorgan, Wales
Civil Parish: St Andrew
Hundred: Dinas Powis
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration district: Cardiff
Sub-registration district: St Nicholas

Piece: 1417
Book: 1
Folio: 6
Page Number: 9

Gronow Thomas 35 Ag Lab
Mary Thomas 30
Mary Thomas 4
Daniel Thomas 1

well, I found the marriage in Swansea, but MC proved that Elizabeth Thomas married Thomas Randall not that John Thomas

so that is proved wrong.


How sure are you that you have the correct family in the 1851 Census???????

I did enquire with Bridgend about the weddings on the other thread but they said there wasn't a match . I could check again . but he was definite about a wedding in Swansea

Banns for Wenvoe marriage:

First name(s) JOHN
Last name THOMAS
Banns year 1852
Banns day 15
Banns month Aug
Marriage year 1852
Marriage day -
Marriage month -
Marriage place WENVOE
Spouse's first name(s) ELIZABETH
Spouse's last name THOMAS
Groom's parish Wenvoe<<<<<<<<<<<<
Bride's parish Wenvoe<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
County Glamorganshire
Country Wales
Record set Glamorgan Banns

banns read for John Thomas bachelor of this parish and Elizabeth Thomas Spinster.

read Aug 15th, Aug 22nd, Aug 29th.

Hi Chris. the thread you have mentioned is one mine from two years ago . the wedding I am looking for now is the parents of Margaret from the earlier post .

Hi Marie celeste . I was mistaken It is the Brides father whose name is different . I have posted a census from 1851 there is an Elizabeth Thomas ,Mother Margaret and father Francis . The mother is from Pembrokeshire
If you look back at my first post here the person at Bridgend local history told me there was a marriage between John Thomas and Elizabeth Thomas in in 1852 in Swansea . . now I am not certain if the banns I found are for the swansea wedding or the wenvoe one

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1317805?d=asc

(had a bell dinging here!, could be more)

Chris :)


http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl

(possible Gronow name relating, on above)

Sorry, can I just clarify? You said it was the GROOM'S father's name that was different. Also, how do you know Elizabeth's maiden name - is it from one of the children's birth certificates? How do you know the year of marriage?

On some census Elizabeth is shown with birthplace Pembroke.

I've seen people remarry with what some may consider indecent haste but it may have been a case of necessity, especially as the 1851 showed John and Rachel had a daughter.

I don't have any info on a first marriage but it is possible due to his age.Would he have remarried in the same year as losing his first wife ?
The age is the problem . As there is a difference of 10 years on the 1881 and1861 census I cannot be certain of tracing the right the birth and death,

I don't have any info on a first marriage but it is possible due to his age.Would he have remarried in the same year as losing his first wife ?
The age is the problem . As there is a difference of 10 years on the 1881 and1861 census I cannot be certain of tracing the right the birth and death,

you have the right family . the brides father should be Francis .if I have the right census for 1851 when she was still single. That is the wedding I found I Wenvoe as you said .

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription

Welcome To Town Llanrhidian, Llanrhidian Lower, Swansea, Glamorganshire, Wale


Francis Thomas Head Married Male 48 1803 Farmer & Inn Keeper Llanrhidian, Glamorgan, Wales
Transcription

Margaret Thomas Wife Married Female 47 1804 - Haverfordwest, Pembrokeshire, Wales
Transcription

Richard Thomas Son Unmarried Male 24 1827 General Servant Llanrhidian, Glamorgan, Wales
Transcription

Margaret Evans Daughter Widow Female 22 1829 - Llanrhidian, Glamorgan, Wales
Transcription

Elizabeth Thomas Daughter Unmarried Female 20 1831 Dress Maker Llanrhidian, Glamorgan, Wales
Transcription

Rees Thomas Son Unmarried Male 18 1833 Ag Labourer Llanrhidian, Glamorgan, Wales
Transcription

Eliza Thomas Daughter Unmarried Female 15 1836 Scholar Llanrhidian, Glamorgan, Wales
Transcription

Catherine Thomas Daughter - Female 13 1838 Scholar Llanrhidian, Glamorgan, Wales
Transcription

Mary Thomas Daughter - Female 9 1842 Scholar Llanrhidian, Glamorgan, Wales
Transcription

Francis L Thomas Son - Male 7 1844 Scholar Llanrhidian, Glamorgan, Wales
Transcription

William Evans Grand Son - Male 2 1849 - Llanrhidian, Glamorgan, Wales
Transcription






Census details



First name(s)
Elizabeth

Last name
Thomas

Relationship
Daughter

Marital status
Unmarried

Gender
Female

Age
20

Birth year
1831

Occupation
Dress Maker

Birth place
Wales

Birth town
Llanrhidian

Birth town as transcribed
Llanrhidian

Birth county
Glamorgan

Birth county as transcribed
Glamorganshire

House name
Welcome To Town Llanrhidian

Street
-

Town
-

Parish
Llanrhidian Lower

City
-

County
Glamorganshire

Hamlet
Llanrhidian

Parliamentary borough
-

Municipal ward
-

Registration district
Swansea

is this it?


First name(s) JOHN
Last name THOMAS
Birth year -
Marriage year 1852
Marriage day 18
Marriage month Sep
Marriage place WENVOE
Spouse's first name(s) ELIZABETH
Spouse's last name THOMAS
Groom's age Full
Groom's father's first name(s) Gronow
Groom's father's last name Thomas
Bride's age Full
Bride's father's first name(s) Rees
Bride's father's last name Thomas
County Glamorganshire
Country Wales
Record set Glamorgan Marriages
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Marriages & divorces
Collections from Great Britain

EDIT: Sorry, this is probably the marriage with the wrong father's name you referred to in the op.