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Hi. Just wondered if anyone was able to help/assist on my family tree.
I'm currently researching the Waters' from Neath, Port Talbot in South Wales.

My grandfathers name was Thomas John Waters born in 1938. I was able to find his father Selwyn Waters (born 1911) and mother Amy Hill (born 1913)

I'm currently searching for my great-grandfathers parents. I managed to find that his mothers maiden name was Owen but unable to find anything else. I don't know my great grandfathers fathers first name/s either so difficult to find a marriage record.

How would I go about tracing such information? If anyone could help would be greatly appreciated. I don't have living relatives that I am able to ask for this information. Mainly the reason why I'm so interested to find out about them. Thanks in advance to anyone taken the time to read my post! Thanks!! <3

Evidently Selwyn's mother's maiden name was Owen:

Selwyn Waters

in the England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915

Name: Selwyn Waters
Mother's Maiden Name: Owen
Registration Year: 1911
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Neath
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Glamorgan
Volume: 11a
Page: 2165

Edit: Oops! Just reread your post. You knew that!

Possible siblings for Selwyn.

Name: Glenys Waters
Mother: Owen
Birth: Mar 1917 - Neath, Monmouthshire


Name: Blodwen Waters
Mother: Owen
Birth: Oct 1912 - Neath, Glamorgan


Name: Thomas G Waters
Mother: Owen
Birth: Oct 1913 - Neath, Glamorgan


Name: Vernon L Waters
Mother: Owen
Birth: Apr 1915 - Neath, Glamorgan

I think you need Selwyn's birth certificate as there are no obvious marriages showing for his parents.

Could this possibly be their marriage?

Marriages Dec 1909 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OWEN Caroline Bridgend 11a 1394
WATERS John Bridgend 11a 1394


And could this possbly be them in 1911?

Carrie Waters

in the 1911 Wales Census
Record Image View

Name: Carrie Waters
Age in 1911: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1890
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Bhondda, Glamorgan, Wales
Civil Parish: Glyncorrwg

Country: Wales
Street address: 14 Beatrice St Blangwynfi Port Talbot
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 1
Estimated Marriage Year: 1910
Registration district: Neath
Registration District Number: 592
Sub-registration district: Glyncorwg
ED, institution, or vessel: 02
Household schedule number: 92
Piece: 32657
Household Members:
Name Age
John Waters 22, born Begelly, Pembroke
Carrie Waters 21

Oh dear, on the off chance that that is him on the 1911 census, the same person is a nephew in 1901 and a visitor in 1891 with no other person with that surname in the household in both cases.

I think alviegal is right and you need Selwyn's birth certificate.

Doesn't help with his parents, but in case you haven't got it:

Name: Selwyn Waters
Birth Date: abt 1911
Date of Registration: Sep 1968
Age at Death: 57
Registration district: Neath
Inferred County: Glamorganshire
Volume: 8b
Page: 421

IF you search members trees, a Barbara Waters has a Selwyn Waters born Blaengwynfi 1911 in her tree on this site .Have you tried messaging her?

If the John Waters that Margee posted is correct, 1911 says he was born c1889 Begelly, Pembroke.

This might be him, in which case it looks like he might have been born out of wedlock, as only a mother is mentioned, which might also explain why he seems to have been passed around a bit in the censuses Margee reported:

First name(s) JOHN<<<<<<<<<<<<
Last name WATERS<<<<<<<<<<
Birth year 1888
Birth day 11
Birth month May
Baptism year 1888
Baptism day 03
Baptism month Jul
Place BEGELLY<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Mother's first name(s) Jane<<<<<<<<
Father's first name(s) -
County Pembrokeshire
Country Wales
Record set Pembroke Baptisms
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records

I think the others are right and you should get Selwyn's birth cert to confirm if we have the right parents for him.

Edit: The baptism image says John was born May 11th 1888, and that his mother Jane was a domestic servant, Abode was Begelly.

It may be totallly unrelated, but on the same register page, abode Thomas Chapel, a Francis Udea Waters was baptised on June 10th 1888, born May 2nd, to Benjamin Waters, an engineer, and wife Caroline.

The 1901 census Margee mentioned:

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Thomas Chapel, Begelly, Narberth, Pembrokeshire, Wales<<<<<<<<<<

Thomas James Head Married Male 70 1831 Farmer Camrose, Pembrokeshire, Wales
Rachael James Wife Married Female 55 1846 Farmer's Wife Begelly, Pembrokeshire, Wales
John Waters Nephew Single Male 13 1888 - Begelly, Pembrokeshire, Wales <<<<<<<<
Isaac James Servant Single Male 22 1879 Farm Servant General Pembroke, Pembrokeshire, Wales

and the 1891 census:

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Broom Lane, Begelly, Narberth, Pembrokeshire, Wales

John Adams Head Married Male 29 1862 Coal Miner Begelly, Pembrokeshire, Wales
Mary Adams Wife Married Female 31 1860 - Pembrokeshire, Wales
Elizabeth A Adams Daughter - Female 6 1885 - Pembrokeshire, Wales
Robert E Adams Son - Male 4 1887 - Begelly, Pembrokeshire, Wales
William G Adams Son - Male 1 1890 - Begelly, Pembrokeshire, Wales
>>>>Thomas Harries Visitor Married Male 24 1867 Coal Miner Cresselly, Pembrokeshire, Wales
>>>>Jane Harries Visitor Married Female 27 1864 - Begelly, Pembrokeshire, Wales
>>>>John Waters Visitor - Male 2 1889 - Begelly, Pembrokeshire, Wales

Note the other two visitors are Thomas and Jane Harries.I think Jane Harries may have been nee Waters, and was probably John's mother:

Marriages Sep 1890 :
HARRIES Thoams Narberth 11a 1481<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Harries Thomas Narberth 11a 1481<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Humphreys David Narberth 11a 1481
Thomas Elizabeth Narberth 11a 1481
Waters Jane Narberth 11a 1481<<<<<<<<<<

Narbeth was the registration district for Begelly.

Jane Harries possibly nee Waters is said to be born c1864 Begelly, in census 1891:

Census 1871 has a corresponding Jane Waters born Begelly c1864:

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Broom, Begelly, Narberth, Pembrokeshire, Wales

Joseph Waters Head - Male 50 1821 - Pembrokeshire, Wales
Rachel Waters Daughter - Female 25 1846 - Pembrokeshire, Wales
William Waters Son - Male 18 1853 - Pembrokeshire, Wales
Joseph Waters Son - Male 13 1858 - Pembrokeshire, Wales
James Waters Son - Male 11 1860 - Pembrokeshire, Wales
>>>>>>>>>>Jane Waters Daughter - Female 7 1864 - Pembrokeshire, Wales
Margaret Waters Niece - Female 6 1865 - Pembrokeshire, Wales
Emely Waters Niece - Female 1 1870 - Pembrokeshire, Wales
Mary Waters Niece - Female 0 1871 - Pembrokeshire, Wales

Father Joseph is a widowed engine driver born St Ifsells/Issells? The children and nieces are all born Begelly (dittoed on the census image from Rachel's entry)

However you really do need Selwyn's birth cert to check on his parents and make sure whether or not we are tracing the right family tree here.

I couldn't find a baptism for Jane Waters; however Rachel Waters her apparent elder sister in the census 1871 I posted is:

First name(s) RACHEL
Last name WATERS
Birth year 1846
Birth day -
Birth month -
Baptism year 1846
Baptism day 10
Baptism month May
Place BEGELLY
Mother's first name(s) Ann<<<<<<
Father's first name(s) Joseph<<<<<
County Pembrokeshire
Country Wales
Record set Pembroke Baptism

Her father is a collier.

A Joseph Waters married an Ann Phelp in Begelly in 1842:

First name(s) JOSEPH<<<<<<
Last name WATERS<<<<<<
Birth year -
Marriage year 1842
Marriage day 4
Marriage month Mar
Place BEGELLY
Spouse's first name(s) ANNE<<<<<
Spouse's last name PHELP<<<<<
Bride's age 18
Groom's age Full
Bride's parish -
Groom's parish -
Bride's father's first name(s) John<<<<<
Bride's father's last name Phelp<<<<<
Groom's father's first name(s) Wm<<<<<<<
Groom's father's last name Waters<<<<<
Parish Begelly
County Pembrokeshire
Country Wales
Record set Pembroke Marriages

The groom is an engineer collier, and both fathers are colliers according to the marriage register image.

This would seem to be Joseph and family in census 1861


1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Withy Bed, Begelly, Narberth, Pembrokeshire, Wales


Joseph Waters Head Married Male 42 1819 Engine Driver Pembrokeshire, Wales
Anne Waters Wife Married Female 38 1823 - Begelly, Pembrokeshire, Wales
Ben Waters Son Unmarried Male 18 1843 Miner Begelly, Pembrokeshire, Wales
Elizabeth Waters Daughter Unmarried Female 12 1849 Scholar Begelly, Pembrokeshire, Wales
John Waters Son Unmarried Male 10 1851 Scholar Begelly, Pembrokeshire, Wales
William Waters Son Unmarried Male 8 1853 Scholar Begelly, Pembrokeshire, Wales
Anne Waters Daughter Unmarried Female 5 1856 - Begelly, Pembrokeshire, Wales
Joseph Waters Son Unmarried Male 3 1858 - Begelly, Pembrokeshire Wales
James Waters Son Unmarried Male 1 1860 - Begelly, Pembrokeshire, Wales

and the previous census:


1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Thomas Chapel, Begelly, Narberth, Pembrokeshire, Wales

Joseph Waters Head Married Male 33 1818 Engineer Begelly, Pembrokeshire, Wales
Ann Waters Wife Married Female 26 1825 Engineer Wife Begelly, Pembrokeshire, Wales
Benjamin Waters Son Unmarried Male 8 1843 Son Begelly, Pembrokeshire, Wales
May Waters Daughter Unmarried Female 7 1844 Daughter Begelly, Pembrokeshire, Wales
Richard Waters Son Unmarried Male 4 1847 Son Begelly, Pembrokeshire, Wales
Eliza Waters Daughter Unmarried Female 2 1849 Daughter Begelly, Pembrokeshire, Wales
John Waters Son Unmarried Male 0 1851 Son -

This baptism might be a bit early for Joseph:

EDIT: Looking at this again this morning, I notice Joseph's father was given as William on his marriage to Ann Phelps, and his birthplace is St Issell in at least one census, so I'm inclined to give this 1816 baptism a second look.

First name(s) JOSEPH
Last name WATERS
Birth year 1816
Birth day -
Birth month -
Baptism year 1816
Baptism day 14
Baptism month Jan
Place HAROLDSTON ST ISSELL'S<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Mother's first name(s) Doey
Father's first name(s) William
County Pembrokeshire
Country Wales
Record set Pembroke Baptisms

Father a labourer.

or there's this one:

First name(s) JOSEPH
Last name WALTERS
Birth year 1817
Birth day -
Birth month -
Baptism year 1817
Baptism day 15
Baptism month Mar
Place BEGELLY
Mother's first name(s) Martha
Father's first name(s) Lewis
County Pembrokeshire
Country Wales
Record set Pembroke Baptisms

Father a collier.

This looks like the baptism for wife Ann:

First name(s) ANN
Last name PHELPS
Birth year 1825
Birth day -
Birth month -
Baptism year 1825
Baptism day 08
Baptism month May
Place BEGELLY
Mother's first name(s) Mary
Father's first name(s) John
County Pembrokeshire
Country Wales
Record set Pembroke Baptisms

Father a collier.

This looks like the death of Ann Waters nee Phelps:

First name(s) ANN
Last name WATERS
Birth year 1824
Death year -
Death day -
Death month -
Age 40
Burial year 1864
Burial day 19
Burial month Sep
Parish BEGELLY
Country Wales
County Pembrokeshire
Mother's first name(s) -
Father's first name(s) -
Husband's first name(s) -
Page 11
Record set Pembroke Burials

Jane Waters had been born the previous year by the looks of it:

Births Dec 1863 WATERS Jane Narberth 11a 644

Going back to the 1901 census I posted earlier:

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Thomas Chapel, Begelly, Narberth, Pembrokeshire, Wales

Thomas James Head Married Male 70 1831 Farmer Camrose, Pembrokeshire, Wales
>>>Rachael James Wife Married Female 55 1846 Farmer's Wife Begelly, Pembrokeshire, Wales
>>>>John Waters Nephew Single Male 13 1888 - Begelly, Pembrokeshire, Wales
Isaac James Servant Single Male 22 1879 Farm Servant General Pembroke, Pembrokeshire, Wales

Note aunt is Rachael James born c1846 Begelly.

I believe she is the Rachel Waters born 1846 Begelly whose baptism I posted earlier:

This looks to be her marriage, and her father is named as Joseph:

First name(s) THOMAS<<<<<<<<<<<
Last name JAMES<<<<<<<<<<<<
Birth year -
Marriage year 1891
Marriage day 20
Marriage month Oct
Place BEGELLY
Spouse's first name(s) RACHEL<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse's last name WATERS<<<<<<<<<<<
Bride's age Full
Groom's age Full
Bride's parish -
Groom's parish -
Bride's father's first name(s) Joseph<<<<<<<<<<<
Bride's father's last name Waters<<<<<<<<<<<<
Groom's father's first name(s) Thomas
Groom's father's last name James
Parish Begelly
County Pembrokeshire
Country Wales
Record set Pembroke Marriages

Thomas James is a widower, a farmer. Bride's father Joseph Waters is a deceased labourer, groom's father a deceased collier.

This looks a likely death for Joseph .

Deaths Mar 1880 Waters Joseph 60 Narberth 11a 572

(Edited as my origiinal cut & paste of the census went pearshaped, plus a couple of other details I'd mistyped )

Welcome to the Community Boards Natalie.


(I will let Natalie know how to find her replies) :-)

Thanks, Cynthia :-)

Well done, Kucinta!!!

Just building on what you and alviegal had already found Margee - I was suffering from insomnia last night so it was something to do, but I still feel that it would be best to get Selwyn's birth cert as you and alviegal both suggested. :-D