Find Ancestors

OK- found them!!! Needs a little explaining:

On one of the bigamy articles Charles states that he had supported his first wife through the war, but he knew they were not compatible. Then on the RAF record Charles states his Wife is Kathleen Derry, but gives his date of marriage as 1901 Liverpool (which is when he married Caroline). So maybe Caroline went by the name Kathleen? I checked the 1911 census and found her- with her Mum (who also appeared with the name Derry!)

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
24 Cecil Stret Carlisle, Carlisle, Cumberland, England
Ellen Darry Head Widow Female Boarding House Keeper 60 1851 Stafordshire Wednesbury
Kathleen Darry Daughter Single Female Drapers Assistant 29 1882 Staffordshire Walsal
Dorothy Darry Daughter Single Female Actress 21 1890 Warickshire Birmingham
Vera Darry Grandchild - Female School 9 1902 Scotland Glasgow
Irene Darry Grandchild - Female School 5 1906 Scotland Glasgow
Frank Kitchen Boarder Single Male Grocers Assistant 25 1886 Cumberland Culgarth
Fred Kitchen Boarder Single Male Grocers Assistant 22 1889 Cumberland Culgarth
William Dickson Boarder Single Male Grocers Assistant 19 1892 Dumfriesshire Dumfries
------------------------------------------------------------------

So, Caroline/ Kathleen's children were Vera and Irene (possibly Millicent Irene as mentioned in the RAF document)

This is the birth of Vera:
VERA GRACE MARGARET DERRY
born 23rd January 1902
Father: Harry Cecil Charles Derry, theatrical agent
Mother: Caroline Sarah Derry (ms Buck)
Address: Palmadine Road, Glasgow

I don't see Irene or Millicent's birth in Scotland so suspect the birth put up by Chris earlier is the correct one:

Births Dec 1905 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------------
Derry Millicent Irene M Pontardawe 11a 948

Wow I am again amazed. I think I do not search in the right places!

You have found so much for me to get on with. Yes he seemed to spend his life in trouble!

Again many thanks

Regards

Josephine

You have messages at 10.20, 10.27 & 10.54

Hello

Did you send me another message at 10.27 am? I got notification of another message but have not received one.

Kind regards

Josephine

Think that RAF attestation is for the correct man- it says prior engagements 2nd Batt Welsh Rgt- rank on discharge, Corporal. Lots of snippets in the papers about him

Liverpool Daily Post - Wednesday 27 June 1917

ABERCROMBY BY- ELECTION

A Great Meeting will be held at the Stadium, Pudsey Street..... Speakers: Charles Derry, late 2nd Welch Rgt, General organiser and agent.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seems to be the same man who wrote a letter to the editor of Sheffield Evening Telegraph - Wednesday 19 May 1920 and signs himself CHARLES DERRY, Sergeant Major. 22 Aldred Road, Sheffield. (This was the address given on his discharge papers from the RAF)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In trouble again!
"Portsmouth Evening News - Friday 04 April 1924
Charles Derry of 21 Beach Road, Southsea was summoned for unlawfully offering himself as a servant, asserting that he had been a servant to Captain F Winter"- this was a lie, he admitted he'd made up references. In his defence he stated " I was a sergeant major with the Welsh regiment and after being invalided I was subsequently marked fit and I did not go to the situation in London because my wife's sister in Southsea was taken ill."
Southsea Ex-Service Man Fined at Havant

(no idea on below!)

British Royal Air Force, Airmen's service records 1912-1939 Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) Charles
Last name Derry
Birth year 1876
Birth date 10 Mar 1876
Birth parish Richmond
Birth county Surrey
Occupation Organiser (Political Agent)
Attestation year 1918
Attestation date 08 Jun 1918
Attestation age 42
Service number 195558
Marriage year 1907
Marriage date 31 May 1907 (on image, 31/7/1901. Town, Liverpool)
Spouse's first name(s) Kathleen
Child's first name(s) Millicent Irene Maynard
Child's birth date 08 Sep 1905
Archive reference AIR 79/1773
(address for nok, wife, Kathleen Derry, 26, Armthorpe Road, Nether Green, Sheffield)


Births Dec 1905 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------------
Derry Millicent Irene M Pontardawe 11a 948

Chris :)

West Midlands Birth indexes for the years: 1879

BUCK Caroline S West Bromwich North East Sandwell Register Office
WBNE/70/417


West Midlands Marriage indexes for the years: 1876

BUCK Edward WOOD Eleanor J West Bromwich, All Saints Sandwell Register Office 22


http://www.westmidlandsbmd.org.uk/index.php


Baptism (Brother)
County Staffordshire
Place West Bromwich
Church All Saints
RegisterNumber
DateOfBirth 02 Aug 1877
BaptismDate 20 Aug 1877
Forename John Edward
FatherForename Edward
MotherForename Eleanor Jane
FatherSurname BUCK
MotherSurname
Abode Hately Heath
FatherOccupation Gas holder worker
Notes Sponsors: James Wright, Edward Buck, Charlotte Wood

http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl


Deaths Mar 1932 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------
Buck Eleanor J 79 Basford 7b 323

(if Mother)


http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3434518/3434530/242/

I think these are the links to the articles on Find My Past

Just noticed this one gives address for mother- living Whalley New Road, Blackburn. Also says Caroline is living with her.
http://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0000290%2f19240606%2f040
CHARGE OF BIGAMY
----------------------------------------------------------------

http://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0000329%2f19240605%2f021
BIGAMY CHARGE
---------------------------------------------------------------------

This is the link to the one where he states he was in the army:
http://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0000265%2f19240613%2f084
Newton Abbot Bigamy Case

Hello again

I meant to say can you send me link for newspaper article re: Bigamy and his army details.

Kind regards

Josephine

I am amazed at how much you have found out! I thought I was quite good at researching but clearly not!

He put listed at 2nd Battalion Welsh Guards - supposedly he was injured in France and sent home. He was apparently on the front of a London National Newspaper in Hyde Park recruiting for the war.

I think I will send for Caroline's certificate just to see who registered death.

Every time he was sentenced to Hard Labour he got himself removed to local asylum! I think he worked out it was easier than hard labour. He was in Prestwich Asylum, Banstead Hospital Burghill Asylum, Exminster! His acting talents must have come in handy. My grandmother lists him as her husband but I do not think they married!! But who knows!

Thank you for you kindness

Regards

Josephine

this is Caroline and family in 1881- I wondered if Caroline was with her mother in 1911, but can't see her. Eleanor was definitely alive in 1911 as she gave a witness statement at the bigamy trial in 1924.

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
12, Winkle Street, West Bromwich, Staffordshire, England
Edward Buck Head Married Male 31 1850 Agent For Sewing Machines West Bromwich, Staff
Elanor J Buck Wife Married Female 27 1854 - Wednesbury, Staffordshire, England
John E Buck Son Single Male 3 1878 - West Bromwich, Staffordshire, England
Caroline S Buck Daughter Single Female 1 1880 - West Bromwich, Staffordshire,

In 1891 father was a Superintendant of Model Lodging House, Birmingham
Caroline's siblings were:
John E 1878
Amy H 1883 Birmingham
Dorothy C 1889 Birmingham
------------------------------------------------------------

Amy Heleanor/ Eleanor married Samuel Clark 1906 in Glamorgan- Caroline isn't with them in 1911

Another child was born to Eleanor and Edward was in 1895 (Hilda Mabel) Smethwick, but it looks as though this child may died in Yorkshire 1897.

As they obviously travelled around so much, it will be almost impossible to track down the birth of the first child - at a guess, born between mid 1901 and May 1902 - unless it survived infancy and can be found with Caroline in 1911.

Is his military record on Find My Past?

On of the newspaper article re the Bigamy conviction in 1924 (Devon) states he joined the army before the war and was demobilised. He rejoined when was broke out, and was discharged in 1920 being unfit for further service. It says he served in the Welch and Hampshire regiments and the RAF. Derry states he finished as a sergeant major.

Is this Caroline's death? Do you know who registered the death? Could be a relative?
First name(s) CAROLINE S
Last name DERRY
Gender Female
Birth year 1879
Age 81
Death quarter 2
Death year 1960
District NOTTINGHAM
County Nottinghamshire
Volume 3C Page 288

Thank you again for all this information.

I am trying to find the first child. No luck yet. But Harry Aubry S Endrie Derry died a year later. I am waiting for certificates now, You have been so helpful. I knew nothing about the Lancashire BMD website and will now explore. It has taken 20 years to find this elusive (grandfather) and only found because of FindMyPast Convicts and Criminals! Again thank you. Every scrap of information is greatly received

Regards

Josephine

Baptism
Name: Harry Aubry S Endrie Derry
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 24 Jan 1904
Father's name: Harry Charles Derry (Window cleaner)
Mother's name: Caroline Sarah Derry
Parish or Poor Law Union: Haggerston St Mary
Borough: Hackney
Register Type: Parish Registers

Born 28th Sept 1903

England & Wales deaths 1837-2007 Transcription
First name(s) HARRY AUBREY S
Last name DERRY
Gender Male
Birth year 1903
Age 1
Death quarter 4
Death year 1904
District SHOREDITCH
County London
Volume 1C Page 86

The 1901 put up by Argyll earlier also has Caroline on it:

Name: Caroline S Devere
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1880
Relation to Head: Boarder
Gender: Female
Birth Place: West Bromwich, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Magdalene
Town: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: Mount Pleasant
ED, institution, or vessel: 04
Piece: 3416 Folio: 81 Page Number: 9
Household schedule number: 43

Henry Graham 53
Mary C Graham 44
Henry R V Graham 25
Mary Emily Graham 18
Annie V Graham 13
Harry C Devere 27<<<<<<<<<
Edward Burton 51
Helena J Burton 48
Mennie O Graham 11/12
Isaac Hyams 46
Hester Hyams 45
Caroline S Devere 21<<<<<<<<<<
Dorothey C Burton 12
Charles Fisher 44

Seems there was a child, according to newspaper articles 1902, "he was visited by his wife and baby".

Chris :)

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/index.php

(First Marriage on above)

edits

(apologies Gritty, didn't see you there, lol, another relating below)

theatrical advance agent named Harry Derry. He broke plate on which his dinner had been served, and with one of the fragments inflicted a deep and ...”

03 May 1902 - Worcestershire Chronicle - Worcester, Worcestershire

No idea if this is connected- but it does mention a child:

Nottingham Evening Post - Wednesday 30 April 1902
SUICIDAL DISPAIR
A determined attempt at suicide was made in the police cell at Blyth yesterday by a theatrical advance agent named Harry Derry alias Cross. Derry, with his wife and child had been in lodgings at Blyth and had absconded with watches and jewellery belonging to the landlord....

thank you to everyone that posted reply - I will do some more research.

Yes this person is the same person and probably had more aliaises.

His brother Cornelius - a much more respectable character!:

Cornelius Philip Derry

in the 1911 England Census
Name: Cornelius Philip Derry
Age in 1911: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1884
Relation to Head: Boarder
Gender: Male
Birth Place: LONDON, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Lewisham
Search Photos: Search for 'Lewisham' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 29 Farley Rd, Catford S E
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: ELECTRIC TRAM CONDUCTOR
Registration district: Lewisham
Registration District Number: 29
Sub-registration district: Lewisham
ED, institution, or vessel: 34
Piece: 2783



Cornelius Philip Derry
in the London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
Name: Cornelius Philip Derry
Estimated birth year: abt 1883
Age: 30
Spouse: Frances Mary Louise Wilson
Spouse Age: 33
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 7 Jun 1913
Parish: St Mark, Deptford
Borough: Lewisham
Father Name: Charles Bernard Derry
Spouse Father: John William Wilson
Register Type: Parish Register



Cornelius Philip Derry
in the British Army WWI Pension Records 1914-1920
Name: Cornelius Philip Derry
Gender: Male
Birth Date: abt 1882
Marriage Date: 7 Jun 1913
Marriage Place: Church Deplford
Age: 32
Document Year: 1914
Residence Place: 66 Malpas Rd, Brockley S E
Regimental Number: 10322
Regiment Name: Royal Fusiliers
Form Title: Short Service Attestation
Number of Images: 7
Other Records: Search for 'Cornelius Philip Derry' in other WWI collections
Family Members:
Name Relation to Soldier
Cornelius Philip Derry Self (Head)
Francis Mary Louise Milson Spouse
John Frances Charles Derry Child
Robert Cornelins Derry Child
Lily Agnes Derry Child
Friederick Richard Derry Child



Cornelius Philip Derry
in the England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966
Name: Cornelius Philip Derry
Probate Date: 8 Jul 1957
Death Date: 2 Dec 1956
Death Place: Kent, England
Registry: Lewes

Derry, Cornelius Philip of Chesleigh, Albion Lane, Herne, Herne Bay, Kent died 2 December 1956 at Herne Bay Hospital, Herne Bay/ administration (with Will) Lewes 8 July to Frances Mary Louise Derry, widow, and John Francis Charles Derry, butler. Effects £2016 0s 11d.

Can't see any sign of children from either marriage.