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A couple of possible marriages 1685-1746:

04/09/1724 MCDOUAL ALEXANDER
GRIZEL GRAIG
/FR1562 (FR1562) M EDINBURGH EDINBURGH CITY CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/01 0460 0306


06/06/1712 MCDOWALL ALEXANDER
MARGARET MAXWELL OR AIRD
FR1469 (FR1469) M EDINBURGH EDINBURGH CITY CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/01 0460 0124

Two other children born to William and Grissell:

28/07/1671 MCDOWALL JAMES
WILLIAM MCDOWALL/GRISSELL BETHON
FR2076 (FR2076) M EDINBURGH EDINBURGH CITY CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/01 0070 0216


07/06/1673 MCDOWALL MAJORIE
WILLIAM MCDOWALL/GRISSELL BEATON
FR2155 (FR2155) F EDINBURGH EDINBURGH CITY CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/01 0070 0372

Jacquline
Yes my william b 9/4/1792 Sidbury Dock Devon died in a lunatic asylum clowance stoke damerel in 1842

Argyl/ Gran As I said before another relative from australia found the earlier details on ancestry so I have no proof

Is Patrick & Eliz Martine in my tree did he marry twice

I am confused with William b 1793 died 1842

and William b 1793 6/4/1841

Thank you for all your help I am getting intersted in my tree again now

Malyon


Query
I see you have Patrick b 1674 m to Eliz Martine 1701 did he marry twice as I have him m to Kath Ferguson 1696

It's probably not possible to tell if the Patrick who married Elizabeth Martine is "yours" or not.

You would have to have a look at the image of the marriage record, in tha hope that his father's name was mentioned - but often isn't in OPR's. (And presumably isn't in this record, or it would have shown in the transcription Malyon found.)

You can view the original on ScotlandsPeople:

20/03/1701 MCDOWALL PATRICK
ELIZABETH MARTINE
/FR1344 (FR1344) M EDINBURGH EDINBURGH CITY CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/01 0450 0093

There's no sign of a marriage to Kath Ferguson (or other spelling) in Scotland.

There are these births, indicating that a Patrick McDowell was married to a Catherine Ferguson (or variation of spelling) :

30/01/1707 MCDOUALL JOHN
PATRICK MCDOUALL/KATHRIN FERGUSON FR4090 (FR4090) M EDINBURGH EDINBURGH CITY CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/01 0140 0307

05/07/1697 MCDOWALL JAMES
PATRICK MCDOWALL/CATHRIN FERGUSON FR3728 (FR3728) M EDINBURGH EDINBURGH CITY CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/01 0130 0115

13/10/1708 MCDOWALL WILLIAM
PATRICK MCDOWALL/KATHRIN FERGUSON FR4123 (FR4123) M EDINBURGH EDINBURGH CITY CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/01 0140 0372


Or perhaps they weren't married.

Also possibly this one, if surname was mistranscribed:

Marion Mcdougall
from Scotland, Births and Baptisms
Name Marion Mcdougall
Gender Female
Christening Place EDINBURGH PARISH, EDINBURGH, MIDLOTHIAN, SCOTLAND
Birth Date 13 Mar 1699
Birthplace Edinburgh Parish, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
Father's Name Patrik Mcdougall
Mother's Name Cathrin Ferguson

Argyl/Gran
I am getting confused with this patrick and children as the surnames are different as well as dates

Can you clarify how you have worked back from William 1792/3 to these assorted McDowalls in the early 1700's and late 1600's

What, precisely, is the line which links them..............and do you have documentary backup?

BTW

No need to be confused about the records I posted. One is a burial - the other is a prison sentence, which may not be relevant

Jacqueine

Well I have the marriage and death certificates up to william b 7/4/1792 sidbury devon died 28/6 1842 clowance stoke damerel

A relative found william John mcdowell b 19/6/1766 clones monaghan ireland
died 21/3/1844 stoke damerel devon m Catherine Bowman 1812 & Sarah Baber 1790 Sidbury Devon

John McDowell b 28/3/1734 DownpatrickDown Ireland m Mary Johnston 4/5/1761 Clones Ireland

John Mc Dowell b 30/1/1707 Edinburgh Scotland died 1774 m Mary Mc Dowall 1728 Edinburgh Scotland

So I dont know if this is all true or not

Is this what you wanted

joyce m

Yes......thanks for that.

What you really need is a baptism for the 1792/3 birth

Incidentally, his marriage shows him to have been a Cordwainer

Joyce -

The surnames are only different in spelling, which was not standardised at that time. People spelled names the way they thought they sounded, or as they thought they should be spelled.

All those versions of the name - McDowell, McDowall, Mcdouall, etc - are the same name, just spelled in different ways.

The Marion McDougall, whose birth I posted, is very likely a member of the same family, but just with the name misheard when it was being written on the original paperwork, or else the person who transcribed it from the original handwriting, in order to put it online, thought that's what the name looked like.
The handwriting in some of the old documents is very hard to decipher.

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Oxford Row, St Andrew, Plymouth, Devon, England

irst name(s) Last name Gender Age Birth year Birth place
Maria Stribling Female 25 1816 Devon, England Transcription
John Stribling Male 7 1834 Devon, England Transcription
Peggy Widdicombe Female 15 1826 Devon, England Transcription
Wm Stott Male 30 1811 Devon, England Transcription
Elizth Stott Female 30 1811 Devon, England Transcription
Elizth Stott Female 8 1833 Devon, England Transcription
Wm Stott Male 6 1835 Devon, England Transcription
Elen Stott Female 2 1839 Devon, England Transcription
Saml Knight Male 50 1791 Devon, England Transcription
Fanny Knight Female 50 1791 Devon, England Transcription
Caroline Knight Female 20 1821 Devon, England Transcription
Saml Knight Male 20 1821 Devon, England Transcription
Wm Knight Male 10 1831 Devon, England Transcription
Wm McDowell Male 49 1792 Devon, England Transcription*********SHOE MAKER
Wm McDowell Male 11 1830 Devon, England

Louisa Mac Dowell
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
birth: 13 July 1821
christening: 1 October 1821 MORRICE ST -WESLEYAN, DEVONPORT, DEVON, ENGLAND
father: William Mac Dowell
mother: Mary


Name Amelia Mc Dowel
Gender Female
Christening Date 05 May 1823
Christening Place MORRICE ST -WESLEYAN,DEVONPORT,DEVON,ENGLAND
Birth Date 23 Jan 1823
Father's Name William Mc Dowel
Mother's Name Mary


Name Thomas Mc Dowell
Gender Male
Christening Date 05 Sep 1831
Christening Place MORRICE ST -WESLEYAN,DEVONPORT,DEVON,ENGLAND
Birth Date 19 Jun 1831
Father's Name William Mc Dowell
Mother's Name Mary


Name William Henry Mc Dowell
Gender Male
Christening Date 07 Jul 1828
Christening Place MORRICE ST -WESLEYAN,DEVONPORT,DEVON,ENGLAND
Birth Date 08 May 1828
Father's Name William Mc Dowell
Mother's Name Mary


Name Thomas Mc Dowell
Gender Male
Christening Date 05 May 1834
Christening Place MORRICE ST -WESLEYAN,DEVONPORT,DEVON,ENGLAND
Birth Date 30 Aug 1833
Father's Name William Mc Dowell
Mother's Name Mary

First name(s) Louisa
Last name Mcdowell
Age 6 Months

Death year 1822
Burial year 1822
Burial date 10 Feb 1822
Denomination Anglican
Burial place Stoke Damerel
County Devon
Country England
Archive South West Heritage Trust
Record set Devon Burials

Jacqueline

I have all the births and deaths after 1792 of william and marys children

It was good to see the stotts surname which was on my williams marriage certificate who were witnesses its to early to get his birth certificate isnt it ??

you have been busy

Argyl/gran yes I know people couldnt spell in those days my 3rd grt grandparents couldnt even write as they put a x on the marriage certificate

To go back to whether or not Patrick married twice, to Kathrin/Cathrin, and then to Elizabeth Martine:


These are the births/baptisms of the children of Patrick and Kathrin/Cathrin - ranging from 1697 to 1708:

30/01/1707 MCDOUALL JOHN
PATRICK MCDOUALL/KATHRIN FERGUSON FR4090 (FR4090) M EDINBURGH EDINBURGH CITY CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/01 0140 0307

24/06/1705 MCDOUGALL PATRICK
PATRICK MCDOUGALL/KATHERIN FERGUSON FR4041 (FR4041) M EDINBURGH EDINBURGH CITY CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/01 0140 0238

05/07/1697 MCDOWALL JAMES
PATRICK MCDOWALL/CATHRIN FERGUSON FR3728 (FR3728) M EDINBURGH EDINBURGH CITY CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/01 0130 0115

13/10/1708 MCDOWALL WILLIAM
PATRICK MCDOWALL/KATHRIN FERGUSON FR4123 (FR4123) M EDINBURGH EDINBURGH CITY CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/01 0140 0372

24/10/1703 MCDOWGALL MARY
PATRICK MCDOWGALL/KATHRIN FERGUSON FR3999 (FR3999) F EDINBURGH EDINBURGH CITY CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/01 0140 0156

(And possibly also the Marian in 1699 whose baptism I posted earlier. Her record is on Familysearch, but not on ScotlandsPeople.


These are the births/baptisms of children born to Patrick and Elizabeth, from 1709 - 1723:

14/12/1723 MCDOUAL PATRITIA
PATRICK MCDOUAL/ELIZABETH MARTIN FR4610 (FR4610) F EDINBURGH EDINBURGH CITY CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/01 0170 0148

21/09/1709 MCDOUALL CHARLES
PATRICK MCDOUALL/ELIZABETH MARTIN FR4168 (FR4168) M EDINBURGH EDINBURGH CITY CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/01 0150 0061

04/09/1713 MCDOUELL JEAN
PATRICK MCDOUELL/ELIZABETH MERTIN FR4302 (FR4302) F EDINBURGH EDINBURGH CITY CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/01 0150 0327

12/12/1711 MCDOUGALL MARGARET
PATRICK MCDOUGALL/ELIZABETH MERTINE FR4239 (FR4239) F EDINBURGH EDINBURGH CITY CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/01 0150 0200

04/08/1715 MCDOWALL ALEXANDER
PATRICK MCDOWALL/ELIZABETH MARTINE FR4381 (FR4381) M EDINBURGH EDINBURGH CITY CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/01 0160 0115

29/08/1718 MCDOWALL ISOBELL
PATRICK MCDOWALL/ELIZABETH MARTINE FR4462 (FR4462) F EDINBURGH EDINBURGH CITY CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/01 0160 0277

Going by the dates of the baptisms, it looks as if the Patrick who married Kathrin, is NOT the same Patrick who married Elizabeth in 1701.


In your opening post you mention Patrick 1674. He is the son of William and Grissell (baptism record posted earlier). Patrick may be the man who married either Kathrin or Elizabeth - or may not - we can't tell.
Possible deaths for Patrick:

04/10/1748 MCDOUALL PATRICK
Other surname; MCDOWALL
M EDINBURGH EDINBURGH CITY CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/01 0940 0044

11/03/1708 MCDOUGALL PATRICK ----- M EDINBURGH EDINBURGH CITY CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/01 0840 0214

17/08/1708 MCDOUGALL PATRICK
Other surname: PATRICK MCDOUGALL
M EDINBURGH EDINBURGH CITY CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/01 0840 0233

(And another version of the same death:
17/08/1708 MCDOWGAL PATRICK
Other surname: PATRICK MCDOWGAL M EDINBURGH EDINBURGH CITY CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/01 0860 0184 )

18/03/1713 MCDOUGALL PATRICK -----
M EDINBURGH EDINBURGH CITY CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/01 0870 0169

08/09/1727 MCDOWALL PATRICK
Other surname: HENRY MC DOWALL
M LEITH SOUTH EDINBURGH CITY CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 692/02 0140 0139



There is no record of an Alexander (or Alexandra, for that matter) in 1610. I don't know where your informant got that from. There is the one in 1670, which I already posted, but he is also a son of William and Grissell, and brother of Patrick 1674.

You also mention a William 1649.
I can't find any record of this person - don't know where your informant found that.
But he may perhaps be the father of Alexander and Patrick - we can't tell.
There are 3 possible deaths for William:

08/01/1726 MCDOUGALL WILLIAM -----
M EDINBURGH EDINBURGH CITY CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/01 0890 0197

12/10/1708 MCDOUGALL WM
Other surname: PATRICK MCDOUGALL
M EDINBURGH EDINBURGH CITY CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/01 0840 0239

22/01/1720 MCDOWALL WM
Other surname: MTHRED MCDONALD M EDINBURGH EDINBURGH CITY CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/01 0890 0033

Joyce -
you said,
"Argyl/gran yes I know people couldnt spell in those days my 3rd grt grandparents couldnt even write as they put a x on the marriage certificate"

Sorry, I must have misunderstood you..

What did you mean when you said the names were different? Different from what?

variations of surnames like mcduel mcdowel mcdowall
you have been busy as well

I was told off for staying in this lovely day on the computer

Thank you both for helping me I will go though them later

Until you find info about the parents of William 1792, everything is speculative.

You say someone else gave you the 'line', so could you perhaps ask them for documentary proof of William's parentage