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just been informed jenny had 4 sisters blodwen, muriel ,edith who dies at a young lady of t /b and mabel

One final possibility:

IF that is the right family in 1911 above, then this is probably the marriage of Idris's parents:

Marriages Mar 1892 (>99%)
Evans Eleanor Pontypridd 11a 680
Williams John Pontypridd 11a 680

And that's me out.
I'm not starting to look for Evanses in Wales as well as Williamses!

You've been given all the info about Idris, so why are you looking for him?

1.
IF the new date of birth you have given us is now the correct one, and IF Jane/Jennie was born in Anglesey (which we don't know - we're only assuming that because she was married there), then one of these four births should be hers:

EDIT: Actually one of the first two, if her middle name was Ellen, as you have said.


Births Mar 1908 (>99%)
Williams Jane Ellen Carnarvon 11b 399
Williams Jane Ellen Anglesey 11b 454

Births Dec 1907 (>99%)
WILLIAMS Jennie Melvyn Carnarvon 11b 386

Births Mar 1908 (>99%)
Williams Jennie Bangor 11b 421

The only way to know which (if any) is her birth , is to buy the certificates to see who the parents of each child were. We cannot help you with that.

2.
I cannot see any 1911 census record for a Jane/Jenny/Jennie/Jennifer Williams, born 1906-8 in Wales, with parents Thomas and Edith.

3.
The only possible 1911 census record for an Idris Williams, born 1906-8, with father John, and older brother Evan, is the one already posted by Jacqueline on page 2, which I will post again here.
This family live in Porth, which matches your earlier information, and also fits with the birth and death records already posted on page 2.
This family has a son younger than Idris, but perhaps your informant is mistaken in thinking Idris was the youngest.

Idris John Williams
in the 1911 Wales Census

Name: Idris John Williams
Age in 1911: 4
Estimated birth year: abt 1907
Relation to Head: Son (Child)
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Llanwonno, Glamorgan, Wales
Civil Parish: Rhondda
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address: 15 Charles St Porth Glamorganshire
Registration district: Pontypridd
Registration District Number: 589
Sub-registration district: Llanwonno
ED, institution, or vessel: 06
Household schedule number: 79
Piece: 32252
Household Members:
Name Age
John Williams 49
Eleanor Williams 40 - wife
Jane Evans 72 - mother-in-law
Evan Thomas Williams 18 - son
Arianwen Williams 14 - daughter
Arthur Ewart Williams 9 - son
Editha Jane Williams 7 - daughter
Idris John Williams 4 - son
Meurig Owen Williams 2 - son

From all the various bits of information you have given us, this seems the most likely family to be Idris's, but we can't guarantee it without knowing his mother's name, which you could find out if you bought his birth certificate (see record on page 2.)

I appreciate your frustration, but as we have said several times before, there are so many Williamses in Wales, that you need the certificates to verify which are the correct people.

I think I speak for all the helpers who have searched for this family when I say that we feel we have done all we can in this search.

Sometimes family tree research is like that - it can often be impossible to pin down the people you want to know about.

You are not going to be able to do this tree unless you spend money on at least the marriage cert.

The longer you leave it, the less chance you have of getting the info in time

You've changed the YEAR of the woman's birth now.!

jenny / jane was def born in 25 dec 1907 .
idris her husbamd had a brother evan who was the eldest and became mayor of ealing in the 50s idris was the youngest of 5 two brothers and two sisters please help i can't find any of these or jenny / jane its so frustrating I've been looking for hours

jane/jennie was born in 25 dec 1907

I'm afraid it doesn't look as if we can help you with Jane / Jennie.

I can't see any Williams child born 1902, with parents Thomas and Edith, in Wales in 1911.


As far as Idris is concerned, the birth and death I posted on page 2 of this thread look as if they MIGHT be for the correct person, and the 1911 census posted by Jacqueline on page 2, on 27th June at 08.53, might also be correct, as you say his father may have been John.

As has been said before, to be absolutely sure of the names of the parents of Jane and Idris, you would have to buy a copy of the marriage certificate - posted by Jacqueline at the top of page 2.

But I'm afraid we can't be certain.

I'm completely stuck please help i can't seem to piece it together jenny was actually jane ellen williams. jane ellen parents were edith and thomas husband idris father was john thank you sorry to be so thick x

just found out jennie real name was jane ellen mum was def edith her dad was idris john think idris dad could have been john

thank you

I don't see a Thomas and Edith William living in Anglesey in 1901 or 1911.

There's this, just as a shot in the dark - if Edith was known as Ellen, maybe? There are certainly 5 daughters in this family :

Jennie Williams
in the 1911 Wales Census

Name: Jennie Williams
Age in 1911: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1902
Relation to Head: Daughter (Child)
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Amlwch, Anglesey, Wales
Civil Parish: Amlwch
County/Island: Anglesey
Country: Wales
Street address: Penylon Llaethdy Bach Amlwch
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: School
Registration district: Anglesey
Registration District Number: 633
Sub-registration district: Amlwch
ED, institution, or vessel: 03
Household schedule number: 76
Piece: 34572
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Williams 63
Ellen Williams 44
William Thomas Williams 19
Mary Ellen Williams 17
Catherine Lizzie Williams 16
Maggie Williams 15
Nellie Williams 14
Jennie Williams 9
John Williams 2


EDIT:

No, the 1911 says they were married 21 years before, therefore approx. 1890.
There are a couple of possible marriages to Ellens, but no Ediths - assuming marriage in Anglesey.

just found out jenny mum and dad were called edith and thomas williams . jenny was the eldest of 5 girls x

Marriages Dec 1890 (>99%)

Davies Elizabeth Merthyr T. 11a 1117
Lloyd Price Merthyr T. 11a 1117
Williams Eleanor Merthyr T. 11a 1117
Williams John Merthyr T. 11a 1117

North Wales Birth indexes for the years: 1901
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
WILLIAMS Jennie Llangefni Isle of Anglesey - Llangefni ROBERTS GEFNI/19/E260

North Wales Birth indexes for the years: 1902
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
WILLIAMS Jennie Beaumaris Isle of Anglesey - Llangefni MUMMERY BEAUMARIS/41/E148

North Wales Birth indexes for the years: 1901
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
WILLIAMS Jane Ellen Bryngwran Isle of Anglesey - Llangefni WILLIAMS BRYNGWRAN/17/E173


North Wales Birth indexes for the years: 1902
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
WILLIAMS Jane Ellen Beaumaris Isle of Anglesey - Llangefni JONES BEAUMARIS/41/E105
WILLIAMS Jane Emily Llangefni Isle of Anglesey - Llangefni ROBERTS

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
2 Keffe St Holyhead, Holyhead Urban, Anglesey, Wales


First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Occupation Age Birth year Birth place
John Williams Head Married Male Boiler Maker Steamship 48 1863 Anglesey Holyhead Transcription
Elizabeth Williams Wife Married Female - 48 1863 Anglesey Holyhead Transcription
Lizzie Williams Daughter Single Female Shop Assistant Drapery 20 1891 Anglesey Holyhead Transcription
Jennie Williams Daughter Single Female School Girl 9 1902 Anglesey Holyhead




1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Penychwaen Llantrisant Llanddeusant Valley, Llantrisant, Anglesey, Wales


Birth place First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Occupation Age Birth year
Llanddeusant Mon John Williams Penteulu Priod Male Porthwr Gwarthegar Ffarm 31 1880 Transcription
Bodedern Mon Mary Williams Gwraig Priod Female - 36 1875 Transcription
Llanddeusant Mon Jane Williams Merch - Male - 9 1902 Transcription
Bodedern Mon Mary Williams Merch - Female - 6 1905



1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Penrangae Gwalchinai Valley, Llanbeulan, Anglesey, Wales


Birth place First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Occupation Age Birth year
Anglesey Llandrygarn Hugh Williams Head Married Male Cowman On Farm 31 1880 Transcription
Anglesey Bryngwran Ann Williams Wife Married Female - 31 1880 Transcription
Anglesey Bryngwran Catherine Williams Daughter - Female School 10 1901 Transcription
Anglesey Bryngwran Jane Williams Daughter - Female School 9 1902 Transcription
Anglesey Llanbeulan Hugh Williams Son - Male - 6 1905 Transcription
Anglesey Llanbeulan Annie Williams Daughter - Female - 3 1908

I hope you can now see why we've said how important it is to get copy certs.

You really didn't give yourself (or us) enough time

IF - and ONLY IF, the birth which has been found is the right girl................

Williams Jane 1902 — 1911 Census Llanbeulan, Holyhead, Anglesey, Wales
Williams Jane 1902 — 1911 Census Llantrisant, Holyhead, Anglesey, Wales
Williams Jennie 1902 — 1911 Census Holyhead Urban, Holyhead, Anglesey, Wales

Janes were commonly known as Jenny/ie in Wales in those days.

I'll post the full census transcriptions below

You didn't say that you didn't know what to do. If you had, I wouldn't have suggested you should do it yourself. Although taking on the idea of compiling a tree with no knowledge of how to go about finding the info is a touch ambitious.

BUT..........that hasn't stopped me - or anyone else - from looking for info for you.

Another BUT.........

You must understand how difficult it is to trace Williams in Wales without any documents.

We seem to have found your friend's father and his family, so you can add those to her tree, and hope that she agrees that the info is accurate

Her mother, on the other hand, is proving even more of a problem at present.

The 1911 with father David, posted by Dea, could be the right one, as Idris named his son David.

We're doing our best to help, Susan, but as has been said before, there are so many Williamses in Wales, that without copies of the various birth/marriage/death certificates, it's impossible to know for sure which ones might be the right ones.

Unfortunately, your timescale doesn't allow you to order and receive any certs in time.