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Lawrence is on the Birmingham elec roll 1945 -- is it known where he went to
live after that ? Is it known when he moved to London


trying to work out if he appears on the London elec roll ? with Winifred as she
seems to be from around Ealing / Brentford area .
But if its after 1964 then we wont find them

The Ancy. tree for Harry Edward S Tolman has Winifred Violet Bartlett born 1908
for which there is a birth ??

Mavis

Ashleigh, you say that even if Winifred was born overseas, there would be some sort of record.

Yes, but we only have access to certain countries' BMD's online, so it would depend where she was born.

Here's a 1908 birth:

Births Mar 1908 (>99%)
Bartlett Winifred Violet Pancras 1b 136

That would certainly tie in with the 1932 Pancras marriage.

But still no idea if it's the right person! You'd have to buy either the marriage or birth cert to see father's name.

Unfortunately, Jan/Feb/March quarter is wrong for a birthday in April, as was stated on Winifred Thorn's death cert.
IF she's the same Winifred!

Harry & Winfred are together in 1939:

Winifred Violet Tolman
in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965

Name: Winifred Violet Tolman (with Harry Edward)
Year: 1939
County or Borough: Islington
Ward or Division/Constituency: Islington North and South
Street address: 242 2s6

Still together in 1945, so my divorce theory is wrong, as he died that year.
(Unless they divorced in 1945 - clutching at straws here!):

Harry E Tolman
in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965

Name: Harry E Tolman (with Winfred V)
Year: 1945
County or Borough: Islington
Ward or Division/Constituency: Islington
Street address: 168 I0

I'm assuming Lawrence went to London when he left birmingham, he literally just upped and left and never contacted his family in birmingham again.

Ok maybe the Tolman marriage isn't right as on the marriage cert of Lawrence it states she's 59 and this is the year 1974 so she has to be born 1914/1915 unless she lied! Lol, her previous marriage was a divorce though.

I would have to get her death certificate to find exact date of her birth and where it was.

may have found Lawrence Houghton 1965 on Elect.roll in Newham.

9 Ashley Road

Lawrence Houghton - J
Victoria Houghton ??? did he have different partners.

there are other Lawrence's but spelt Laurence in Ealing one with a Vera P

he seems to have been in Chelsea / Kennington 1935 / 1936 where he married and 1st child born ..

Newham is classed as Essex was East and West Ham Districts and Waltham Forest is near enough next door Walthamstow / Leyton/ Chingford / Cann Hall
also classed as Essex.

Mavis

Lawrence married Mary Madigan in 1933 in kensington and had there first child which was John in 1933 as well then went on to have 3 more children....one of which was my nan so I'm just really annoyed at him that he left them all and didn't contact them again and just started this new life.

I don't know if he had multiple partners...I haven't heard anything regarding a Victoria though. He's address was still Ashley road when he died in 1977 residing with Winifred.

well that's a clue then -- right address was the number the same

Winifred V Houghton = Albert C Thorn -- Dec Q 1988 - Ealing - 12 108

Winifred Violet Thorn -- Date of birth 29 - 4 - 1915 died Dec Q 1994 Ealing

a copy of this marriage would tell you if father was a Joseph Bartlett and if so we would be on the right track -- a death cert should tell you what relation the informer
was to the person who died -- which can be very helpful

who are the witnesses on Lawrence and Winifred marriage

Mavis

Can't make out the witnesses at all as they're signatures which is a pain. Yeah I'll have to get the Certs really, I've got a few to get but it'll have to wait till payday!

the Winifred Violet Bartlett 1908 has a father Frederick Jacob Bartlett
mother Margaret Bartlett

she appears on elec roll with family 1930 / 31/ 32 after which she married
Harry Tolman -- so not the Winifred wanted

may be the one who married 1939 to Frank V O'Higgins

Mavis