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We keep crossing messages, tee hee.

what about the death in 1903 she would be a widow in 1911

That looks more like it. Thank you.

I'm looking up things at the same time as you are and Elizabeth Clarke was a widow by 1911 so I don't think that's him Yvonne but thanks for looking.

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John Thomas Clark
England and Wales Death Registration Index 1837-2007
Name:
John Thomas Clark
Event Type:
Death
Registration Quarter:
Apr-May-Jun
Registration Year:
1903
Registration District:
Dudley
County:
Staffordshire
Event Place:
Dudley, Staffordshire, England
Volume:
6C
Page:
23
Line Number:
133

John Thomas Clarke
England Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991
burial: 11 July 1913 Roley-Regis, Stafford, England

How kind.
Right, this is what I now have for definite.
20.1.1899 Thomas Ernest Clarke (known as Ernie) was born.
His father was John Thomas Clarke (known as Thomas) and worked as a carter. he was 30 on the 1901 census. He died when Ernie was young.
His mother was Elizabeth Clarke and was 26 on the 1901 census.
He had an older sister called Miriam who was 4 according to the 1901 census we also know she died young.
That's it.

Just be exact on what you want us to look for going forward from what you have now found .

We are all here to help.

Dea Xxx

Thanks to everyone who helped with this a few weeks back. I have just received his birth certificate based on your help and my knowledge of his birthday day and month (though not year until you stepped in). Anyway, the birth certificate matches. I have the beginning of a great adventure in front of me and my partner is already asking me to research as much as I can tonight so he can take it to his Mum's tomorrow and surprise her.
You are marvellous people, consider yourselves hugged. :-D

Thank you again, you have been most kind.
I'm going to disappear now and write this all up plus order a birth certificate. I'll keep watching the thread in case you do find anything and of course I'll post an update when I have one.
Best regards and good luck with your own family research. ;-)

I think getting the birth certificate might be the only way forward, and, as you say, at least you have the date to confirm if it's correct.

...and if it's not right at least you won't be wasting time on the wrong family.

I'll keep having a look and if I spot anything I'll let you know.

Thank you, that's a day trip for me sometime. I will try to order the birth certificate for the Thomas Ernest you have found in Tipton and then added to with many Watts as I know the date of birth 20th Dec, that should be on there and then we can say it's him for certain. :-)

In 1952 Thomas disappears from 197 Kitts Green Road, but Florence is still there:

1952 Electoral register:
197 Kitts Green Road, Stechford
Froggatt, Thomas J
Clarke, Florence H

It's always easy when you know how!

Historical Midlands/ Birmingham Electoral registers are on Ancestry (1832- 1955)

Unfortunately I don't think they cover Dudley- however, Staffordshire central library should hold historical electoral registers for the area (although I think they may only be searchable by address- but not sure on that)

Wow, that's amazing. I have been trying to do this for ten years and you've already found out more in a single weekend. I must have been looking in all the wrong places. You are rapidly becoming my favourite person on the Internet. How do you find out about electoral rolls - I thought they were private? :-D

Doesn't really help but Thomas Ernest lived with Florence's family for a bit:

1950 Electoral register:
197 Kitts Green Road, Stechford
Froggatt Thomas J
Clarke Thomas E
Clarke Florence H
Froggatt Annie E

Florence was living there in 1945 (Under Froggatt surname), but no Thomas Clarke listed there for that year.

Oh wow, thanks Gritty. I'll take a look at that and your idea may be right too about the ladies. I do hope this is the right branch because it seems to be really coming together.
:-)

I was thinking- if the Watts family is correct then the maiden Aunts could be Phoebe Annie, and Alice Malvina? However, I don't see their deaths/ marriage to confirm this. There is often a little truth in the stories that get passed on

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
9 Gammage St Dudley, Dudley, Staffordshire, England
Abigail Watts Head Widow Female 71 1840 Wordley Staffs Housekeeper
Elizabeth Clarke Daughter Widow Female 37 1874 Harts Hill Worcs Tailoress
Phoebe Annie Watts Daughter Single Female 32 1879 Harts Hill Worcs Tailoress
Alice Malvina Watts Daughter Single Female 28 1883 Harts Hill Worcs Tailoress
James William Watts Grandson Single Male 20 1891 Harts Hill Shoeing Smith Assistant
Miram Clarke Granddaughter - Female 14 1897 Ripton Barntree Staffs School
Horace Clarke Grandson - Male 7 1904 Barntree Staffs

Thank you. I've not had any divorce record success yet. I hadn't thought about Grandma Florence knowing but you are right, of course she would have known! I'm fairly confident about the Dudley, he did admit to coming from there and was a West Bromwich Albion fan. Thanks for having a think for me and pointing out stuff! :-D

Grandma Florence must have known he'd been married before - it was on the marriage cert she signed. And don't discount him being born out of the area you thought - he was obviously living "in sin" as you put it so may be out of his original area? Have you tried to find divorce records - not that many exist for that period?