Find Ancestors

But I was going to mention ... one of the men in my tree who was a Captain of Reserve in the IY is shown at home in the 1901 census, but is also in the Anglo-Boer list at Kevin Asplin's britishmedals.us site

it may be that because he was middle-aged he had not been called up at that point (he was in his early 40s and that was the only occupation given for him in 1901)

there were likely also men who enrolled in the IY only after (or shortly before) the 1901 census date

... I just checked his nephew, and he enrolled in early February 1901 and left England in mid-March 1901

None of the men in my tree who served in the Boer War appear on the 1901 census.....they were being kept busy in SA

I don't think they got home leave from that conflict

I wondered about this birth ... the child would have been 4 years old at the 1911 census date

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FBGH-KZF

Name: Nellie May King
Event Type: Birth
Event Date: Apr - Jun 1906
Event Place: Antrim, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year: Apr - Jun 1906
Registration District: Antrim
Volume Number: 1
Page Number: 18


the British military was certainly in Antrim

but in 1911 she is in the household of parents Robert and Ellen in Antrim so she is ruled out

Although we are unsure of Edith's year of birth, this is the Edith that Yvonne has found.

1901

Edwin J Barnes
Gender: Male
Age: 41
Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation to Head: Son
Residence Date: 31 Mar 1901
Townland/Street: Kenilworth Square
District: Rathmines
County: Dublin
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Barnes 62, widow
Kathleen Barnes 28
Edwin J Barnes 41
Herbert Barnes 30

But the same family in 1911 has a daughter Edith and her age doesn't match the Kathleen in 1901.

Elizabeth Barnes
Gender: Female
Age: 72
Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation to Head: Head
Residence Date: 2 Apr 1911
Townland/Street: Kenilworth Square
District: Rathmines & Rathgar West
County: Dublin
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Barnes 72
Edith Barnes 30
Eileen Barnes

Gorge being in the Boer war is a guess because of the time period, the fact he was listed as a soldier in the census and that there are two troopers listed for that time as George Joyce. But i don't have hard evidence. You can see why it is so hard to get any information as all the documentation do not seem to be out there.
I don't know anything about Edith Kathleen apart from what everyone has so far come up with and do not know how she preferred to be called only that she is listed as from County Wicklow.
I think right now i need to investigate his military period and see if that sheds any light.

on the London Electoral list appears as Kathleen Edith 17 Pratt St. in 1930 and 1932.

did she prefer being Kathleen or was that her real 1st name

Mavis

Yvonne, if you check page 1 as well, there are several possible births of an Edith/Kathleen that could fit, and no way of knowing whether she was any of them

a problem is that both George and Edith/Kathleen seem to have given incorrect ages in 1911 for some unknown reason ...

both stated 39 in 1911 = c1871/2

but
George stated 22 in 1901 = 1878/9
and
both their death records state ages = c1876/7

and George actually was born in 1877


We just don't know what age/dob is more likely for Edith Kathleen.

this could be the birth for elizabeth spelt different

Elizabeth Mckee
Ireland Births and Baptisms
Name: Elizabeth Mckee
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 29 May 1831
Birthplace: EUSTACE STREET PRESBYTERIAN, DUBLIN, DUBLIN, IRELAND
Father's Name: Robert Mckee

this is the aboves marriage


Elizabeth Mckay
mentioned in the record of Edwin Barnes and Elizabeth Mckay
Name: Edwin Barnes
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Mckay
Event Date: 31 Jul 1857
Event Place: St Michans, Dub, Ireland
Father's Name: Joseph Watson Barnes
Spouse's Father's Name: Robert Mckay
Marital Status: Single
Spouse's Marital Status: Single

if this is her birth mother

Name: Elizabeth Mc Kay
Gender: Female
Husband: Edwin Barnes
Daughter: Edith Kathleen Barnes
Other information in the record of Edith Kathleen Barnes
from Ireland Births and Baptisms
Name: Edith Kathleen Barnes
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 15 Jul 1872
Birthplace: Dublin City, Dublin, Ireland
Father's Name: Edwin Barnes
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Mc Kay

so we know George was in the Boer War?

if he was in the Imperial Yeomanry (that is, signed up for that war but was not in the regular military) there are two possibilities here

http://www.britishmedals.us/files/iyj.htm

Joyce, G. 32808, Trooper 92nd Coy., 23rd Bn. I.Y.
Joyce, George 34521, Trooper 74th Coy., 8th Bn. I.Y.


FindMyPast shows those two (brief transcriptions, no images)

34521
no identifying info, returned with unit on SS Norham Castle, medals for SA 1901 and 1902

32808
17 Gooding St, Vauxhall, S.W. London

and 2 other 'G's

195
Sub Conductor, Army Service Corps

1311
Indian Subordinate Medical Department, Madras Command (so unlikely)


the actual records are available only at Kew as far as I know

finding his military records could provide some important information

The nub of your problem is that there is no sign of a birth registration for the names she used when she married, so how can you get the cert?

She was supposedly born in 1906 - the Boer War ended in 1902

Not sure if Nellie had any siblings I have not found any evidence, I am told she talked about a brother who died in the Navy and that is why her eldest son joined. But as i have been finding out families hide so much. Looking into both leads for her mother, i would love to find out about her, as to her daughter Nellie being a foster child, she could have been I will have to get her bith cert, but more likely they didnt have her until George came home from the Boer war.
Thank you everyone for all your digging it all helps :-)

It doesn't really help Joonie as there doesn't seem to be an obvious marriage in Ireland! Sadly his military records don't seem to have survived either grrh!

oh oops ... memo to self: always look at the image!

yes, if he was in the military, that would make sense.

In 1901 George's occupation is given as Soldier so he may well have served in Ireland and met Edith there.

As previously mooted, she may not have been their natural child

We could do with answers from Lucy to the questions she has been asked

just a note on the 1911 census

for George, it says born St Pancras, English
for Edith, it says born Ireland, Co Wicklow, Irish

then the birthlaces for the next three people are dashes and all say English ...
since one of those three is George's brother Edward John, I think the dashes actually refer to Pancras


so this is George's household in 1881

Name: George Joyce
Age: 4
Estimated birth year: abt 1877
Relationship to Head: Son
Father: Edwin J. Joyce
Mother: Ellen Joyce
Gender: Male
Where born: St Pancras, Middlesex, England
Occupation: Scholar

Civil Parish: St Pancras
County/Island: London
Street address: 40 Red Hill St
Registration district: Pancras
Sub registration district: Regents Park

Edwin J. Joyce 40
Ellen Joyce 38
Richard Joyce 18
Edwin Joyce 15 born Marylebone > 44 in 1911
Susan Joyce 13
Albert Joyce 11
Eliza Joyce 7
George Joyce 4
Alice Joyce 1


Births Mar 1856
JOYCE Edward John Marylebone 1a 430

Marriages Dec 1862
Joyce Edwin John
Rodel Ellen Matilda Marylebone 1a 757

Edward, Edwin, Edmund were often treated as interchangeable


in 1901, George is in the household of his married sister Susan in St Pancras

Charles Morris 35
Susan Morris 32
William Morris 11
Ellen Morris 8
Charles Morris 6
Alice Morris 3
Thomas Morris 2
> George Joyce 22
Charles Ellis 20
Ellen Poulton 19


given that George's mother was Ellen, I wonder whether Nellie was really Ellen too?

or yes, the other possibility, that she was Edith's child before George

but they claim married 8 years when Nellie is only 4, so even if they weren't married it would seem she is likely a child of their union

it seems quite unlikely that George would have gone to Ireland and married there

These are all great leads!! thank you so much :-)

https://www.deceasedonline.com/

(above has below Burial, and George)


Deaths Mar 1933 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------
Joyce Edith K 56 Pancras 1b 145 (Joyce, Edith Kathleen)

Chris :)