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David, do you not have your mother's birth certificate? It would give mother's maiden name.

Oh dear, so he does.

The nearest marriage I can find that would fit with a marriage in 1895/86 is this one:-

Marriages Jun 1896 (>99%)
Abbott Lucy Eleanor Holborn 1b 1224
DRAKE James Holborn 1b 1224
Elisha William Charles Holborn 1b 1224
Weller Louisa Ann Holborn 1b 1224

................but we need Alice's mothers maiden name really.

Oh dear! Something has gone wrong with GR's clock making Catherine's and my posts going to the top of the thread instead of the bottom.

Thanks again folks.
There's certainly a lot to think about in your answers.

I always thought that my Grandma's maiden name was Smith but I have searched that extensively with no luck.
The children shown in the 1901 census are correct - some died young. 1911 census shows my mother, Alice with her siblings that I knew.

I am off for the weekend but will get back to this early next week when hopefully the clock on here will be back to normal and the posts will be easier to follow chronologically.
Regard
David

Hi
He was my maternal Grandad. I have memories of him when he lived in Camden Town during WW2. He was an orthopedic bootmaker.
Looking for any info at all about him.
Thank you
David Fright

Name: James John Drake
Birth Date: 1864
Birthplace:
Age: 21
Spouse's Name: Annie Sweeney
Spouse's Birth Date: 1864
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age: 21
Event Date: 25 Dec 1885
Event Place: Christ Church, Southwark, Surrey, England
Father's Name: William Drake
Mother's Name:
Spouse's Father's Name: Alfred Sweeney
Spouse's Mother's Name:
Race:
Marital Status: Single
Previous Wife's Name:
Spouse's Race:
Spouse's Marital Status: Single
Spouse's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M00769-7
System Origin: England-EASy
GS Film number: 384916
Reference ID: p133 n266



Citing this Record:
"England Marriages, 1538–1973 ," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NJ7P-MK1 : accessed 30 January 2015), James John Drake and Annie Sweeney, 25 Dec 1885; citing Christ Church, Southwark, Surrey, England, reference p133 n266; FHL microfilm 384,916.

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Catherine Buildings, 12, London, St Martin in the Fields, Strand, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James J Drake Head Married Male 37 1864 Bootmaker Holborn, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Annie Drake Wife Married Female 37 1864 - St Pancras, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Annie Drake Daughter Single Female 14 1887 - Southwark, Surrey, England
Transcription
William J Drake Son - Male 9 1892 - Lambeth, Surrey, England
Transcription
Francis J Drake Son - Male 4 1897 - Holborn, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Ernest J Drake Son - Male 0 1901 - St Martin in the Fields, London, England

Is this him?


1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
26 Euston St St Pancras N W, St Pancras, London, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship to household head Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Birth place Occupation
James John Drake Head Married Male 47 1864 London St Pancras Bootmaker

Annie Drake Wife Married Female 37 1874 London Marylebone -

Francis Drake Son - Male 13 1898 London Holborn -

Earnest Drake Son - Male 10 1901 London Holborn -

Alice Drake Daughter - Female 6 1905 London Holloway -

Catherine Drake Daughter - Female 5 1906 London Clerkenwell -

John Smith Boarder Single Male 28 1883 London Marylebone Porter


Married 15 years - 5 children, one of which has died.

What do you want to know about him?

Dea x

Tree on Ancestry says the above James died 1936 before WW11.
Needs double checking!

Maryb

Thank you everyone, that's very helpful.

@ safc Thanks for the marriage info. I had Annie's maiden as Smith but that was in doubt. Everything else ties up well so I'm taking Sweeney as correct.

@ Dea Thank you for the confirmation, I had the 1901 census and the 1911 census which I only found by looking for my Mother Alice. I want to know anything at all that anyone has about him.

@ Mary. Thanks Mary I know he was alive after 1936 because when my family was bombed out in 1942 we moved in with him for a while in Camden Town I watched him making made-to-measure riding boots for sale in Jermyn Street. He died some time around 1944.

Kind regards
David

????

Deaths Mar 1951 (>99%)
DRAKE James J 81 Camberwell 5c 451

.............would make date of birth 1870 but may be worth a look at?

Between 1862 and 1869 I can only see two births for a James John Drake


Births Sep 1869 (>99%)
Drake James John Rotherhithe 1d 672
The district Rotherhithe is in the county of Surrey

Births Dec 1869 (>99%)
Drake James John Dorchester 5a 337
The district Dorchester is in the county of Dorset;

A possible death:-

First name(s) JAMES J
Last name DRAKE
Gender Male
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1870
Age 81
Death quarter 1
Death year 1951
District CAMBERWELL
County London
Volume 5C
Page 451

EDIT - Catherine beat me to it.

Kath. x

This seems to be the same one as the other census records, father William:-

NAME: James Drake
AGE: 7
ESTIMATED BIRTH YEAR: abt 1864
RELATION: Son
FATHER'S NAME: Wiliam Drake
MOTHER'S NAME: Louisa Drake
GENDER: Male
WHERE BORN: St Pancras
CIVIL PARISH: St Pancras
ECCLESIASTICAL PARISH: St Peter
COUNTY/ISLAND: London
COUNTRY: England
REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Pancras
SUB-REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Gray
ED, INSTITUTION, OR VESSEL: 10
HOUSEHOLD SCHEDULE NUMBER: 325
PIECE: 216
FOLIO: 100
PAGE NUMBER: 45
HOUSEHOLD MEMBERS:
NAME AGE
Wiliam Drake 29 - Occupation : Painter
Louisa Drake 31
James Drake 7
William Drake 4
Ann Drake 2
Kate Drake 8 Months

.....................do you have his marriage certificate to confirm father's name and occupation?

A problem? The 1911 census says that they've been married 15 years making the marriage 1896 but that James John Drake/Annie Sweeney marriage was 1885. Also Annie on the 1911 census was only 37. If she married 1885 she would only have been 11 years old.

In 1901 Annie's date of birth is given as 1864 which would fit, but it's possible that that Annie died and he married another Annie in 1895/6??


David, if James was your Grandfather, who was your Grandmother? Can you confirm if any of this info is correct please?

Which one of his children is your mother?

Yes, I've been trying to fond the marriage to another Annie but no luck.

David says that his mother was Alice.

OMG, this is great, my great grandfather is James John Drake and I have so struggled getting correct information on him. Four birth certificates and none of them right and today a death certificate arrived and I don't think it's right because it has his son which I don't have. Plus a marriage certificate which was also incorrect. I am so glad other people are struggling as well.

This is my Dad's (Bill Drake still alive aged 88) grandfather. He was always told that his grandfather married, had two boys, the wife died, the children were put into an orphanage and when he remarried they took the two boys out of the orphanage and went on to have more children. He thought the second wife was Annie Rooney and she was Irish. I am sure it was Annie Sweeney and she wasn't Irish. My grandfather William John Drake, his mother was Annie Sweeney so that changes the story of what Dad was told.

On Roots chat I was alerted to the fact that James John Drake had been in prison twice. Once for stealing a pair of boots (Coldbath Fields Prison) and then grievous bodily harm (Pentonville for 18 months) - and the person he hurt was his wife's stepbrother Alfred Carne.

I am so excited I am going to ring Dad now. I will come back later with more information that I have although a lot of it has already been said and trying to decipher it all and work out the dates.
:-D

Dad though he had died at the beginning of WW2 in 1939 and lived in Bemmerton St, two doors up from where they lived. He still feels that he had two children with the first wife then five more with Annie but I have never found anything that fits. His memories of Annie were a lady who sat in the corner and never spoke and to him she looked like "Grandma" from the Giles Cartoons.

Mind you my father thought his grandfather's name was William Drake and he was born in 1850 approx and was 90 when he died but I could never find anything that fitted in with that.