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Trying to trace relatives or information on Joseph Pinder born 1919 Stockton on Tees. He had 2 brothers Ermest 1911 and Benny (Benjamin) 1913. Ernest and Benjamin mothers surname was Wells or Mells yet Joseph mothers surname was Brown. According to Stockton Registrars all 3 boys were FULL brothers so not sure where to go from here. Joseph Pinder 1885 married Laura E Brown in 1917 which adds further confusion..

Can any one help to shed some light??

Nancy

Hi

If the mothers maiden name was Brown on Joseph's birth certificate and Wells on the other two boys born, this indicates that they are two different mothers

Was Laura E Brown married before she married Pinder?

I doubt that the registrars could know for certain that these boys were full brothers at a distance of a century, unless there is something on the certs to prove this

Do you have ANY certs?

Births Sep 1911 (>99%)
Pinder Ernest Wells Stockton 10a 119

Births Jun 1913 (>99%)
Pinder Benjamin Wells Stockton 10a 195

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
50 High St Norton Stockton on Tees, Norton, Durham, England


First name(s) Last name Relationship to household head Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Birth place Occupation
Ada Thompson Head Married Female 40 1871 Stockton Durham Private Means Transcription
Laura Wells Companion Single Female 32 1879 Mioddleton Yks - Transcription
Joseph Pindle Visitor Single Male 26 1885 Stockton Durham Tram Driver

I enquired at the Stockton registrars as to why the first 2 sons mothers name was (Wells) and Joseph was( Brown) they said they had a look and they were definitely all brothers?? and they suggested I purchase the birth cert which would explain in detail.. I will do this as a last resort but its my sister who is related to this branch through marriage, so not really wanting to go there unless I have to.. I did see Joseph Pinder born 1885 listed as aged 26 with a Laura Mells (and wondered if this was a mistranscription) and this may well be thee Laura Wells. Did she have the 2 boys out of wedlock with Joseph, did she marry a Brown before marrying Jospeh doesn't make sense.. :-

Marriages Jun 1917 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------
Brown Laura E Pinder Stockton 10a 151
Pinder Joseph E Brown Stockton 10a 151

(any idea of his E name?)

Chris :)

Births Mar 1885 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------
Pinder Joseph Ernest Stockton 10a 80

Births Mar 1878 (>99%)
Wells Laura Ellen Middlesbro' 9d 555

This seems likely to be Laura's death:

Name: Laura E Pinder
Birth Date: abt 1876
Date of Registration: Dec 1935
Age at Death: 59
Registration district: Stockton
Inferred County: Durham
Volume: 10a
Page: 81
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We need to trace her back from here.

Dea x

To find out if she married a Brown, look at freebmd

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Rushford Street, Middlesbrough, Yorkshire, England


First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Christopher Wells Head Married Male 40 1851 Tin Plate Worker Yorkshire, England Transcription
Mary E Wells Wife Married Female 38 1853 - Middlesbrough, Yorkshire, England Transcription
John G Wells Son - Male 15 1876 - Middlesbrough, Yorkshire, England Transcription
Laura E Wells Daughter - Female 13 1878 - Middlesbrough, Yorkshire, England Transcription
Mary E Wells Daughter - Female 11 1880 - Middlesbrough, Yorkshire, England Transcription
Christopher Wells Son - Male 9 1882 - Middlesbrough, Yorkshire, England Transcription
Emily A Wells Daughter - Female 6 1885 - Middlesbrough, Yorkshire, England Transcription
Gertrude Wells Daughter - Female 4 1887 - Middlesbrough, Yorkshire, England Transcription
Benjamin Wells Son - Male 1 1890 - Middlesbrough, Yorkshire, England

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
6, East Park Road, Harrogate, Knaresborough, Yorkshire, England


First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Thomas Watson Head Married Male 46 1855 Head Master Technical School Fishlake, Yorkshire, England Transcription
Elizabeth Watson Wife Married Female 42 1859 - Leeds, Yorkshire, England Transcription
Ethel C Watson Daughter Single Female 21 1880 - Bradford, Yorkshire, England Transcription
Lilly Watson Daughter Single Female 18 1883 - Bradford, Yorkshire, England Transcription
Laura Wells Servant Single Female 23 1878 General Servant (Domestic) Yorkshire, England Transcription

I am trying to establish if Joseph Pinder 1919 father Joseph Ernest Pinder 1885 was the son of Thomas Pinder 1863 and Jane Evans 1863. In all the census records Jane (Jenny) is listed as being born Rose a Medra Denbighshire North Wales (there are various spellings for this) I see her on the 1911 census listed with Thomas aged 26.. I noticed the 2 boys were apprentice bricklayers in 1901; their father Thomas was a bricklayer and his father before him so I'm assuming it was a family business; yet on the 1911 both sons are now working on the trams and I see father Thomas aged 48 in an Institution of some sore , It doesn't say what kind.. :-S

Its Ernest Chris.... His first son was called Ernest, second Benjamin...

You know the answer, don't you.......lol!

Bricklaying was the family TRADE..........not a family business.

If you look at the 1901 census IMAGE, you will see that Thomas was a Worker (i.e. employed by someone)

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
16, Millbank Street, Stockton upon Tees, Stockton, Durham, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Thomas Pinder Head Married Male 37 1864 Bricklayer Stockton, Durham, England Transcription
Jenny Pinder Wife Married Female 37 1864 - - Transcription
Thomas H Pinder Son Single Male 16 1885 Apprentice Bricklayer Stockton, Durham, England Transcription
Joseph E Pinder Son Single Male 16 1885 Apprentice Bricklayer Stockton, Durham, England Transcription
Alice M Pinder Daughter Single Female 13 1888 - Stockton, Durham, England Transcription

In 1911, Thomas was in the Workhouse

This is interesting:

Name: Joseph Pinder
Age in 1911: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1885
Relation to Head: Visitor
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Stockton, Durham, England
Civil Parish: Norton
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street address: 50 High St Norton On Tees
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Tram Driver
Registration district: Stockton
Registration District Number: 544
Sub-registration district: Stockton
ED, institution, or vessel: 36
Piece: 29582
Household Members:
Name Age
Ada Thompton 40
Laura Mells 32
Joseph Pinder 26
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Dea x

The FMP version posted earlier shows Laura's name as Wells

Sorry Jacqueline - I missed that 1911 above :-S

It does confirm that the 1878 birth you have found in Middlesborough is the correct one.

Dea x

hey, no probs........confirmation is always useful

I was just illustrating that point, which also explains why the OP has both names in her post