Find Ancestors

It is also wise to also look for Neale ................


enumerators could always mis-spell names on censuses ...................... most of our ancestors were illiterate or barely literate, and would not know that there was a mistake.


Other mistakes are made when the modern-day transcribers have worked on old-fashioned handwriting to produce the records and indexes



who would have thought that Schofield could be seen as "Silufeld"????


or Hayhurst as "Porst"


Cadd, Ladd or Sadd ......... all very valid surnames, but often mis-transcribed as one or t'other





These are in addition to JoonieC's comment that Ancestry makes mistakes!




This is why both JoonieC and myself looked for Will* and Neal* ...... where * stands for 1 or more missing letters


I even looked for ne*l, in case the surname had been mis-spelled along the way as Neil



Moral ....................... NEVER, ever assume that the spelling you know now is what you will find on a census, or any other record :-)

Its amazing that you have proved he was in prison in 1901.Im going to try and find out what he was in prison for, when he came out and what he did afterwards. He was the black sheep of the family according to rumor!
Where is he after 1901. he isnt on the next census is he?

i think also that they are the Neal missing children. Can i find death certificates for them on freebmd ?

Sarah ................


we have already said that we have been unable to find him on the 1911 Census .............. but there is a death registration that seems to be him in 1912


This means that we have not found hime ..................... but that does not mean that he is not alive in 1911


.............. he could have been missed out

............. his name could have been very badly mis-spelled and we haven't found it

............. he could even be on there under the wrong name .......... this does happen




I should buy that death certificate




You should be able to find death certificates for the children on freebmd, as long as they died before about 1965 / 1970, as freebmd only goes that far


Ancestry carries bmds until about 2005/2006

i ll buy that death cert tomorrow. thanks

i cant find either of those childrens death certs on freebmd. maybe i need more practice at this ! :-S

Florence did not die ....................


JoonieC found this ..................

I'm re-posting it for you ...............



This is surely Florence in 1901

Name: Florence Neal
Age: 18
Estimated birth year: abt 1883
Relation to Head: Servant
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Birmingham
Civil Parish: Hucknall Torkard
Ecclesiastical parish: Hucknall Torkard St Mary
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Registration district: Basford
George Cartledge 59
Sarah H Cartledge 52
Mary Cartledge 73
Florence Neal 18

a possible marriage ...................

Marriages Jun 1901

CUTTS John Thomas Basford 7b 353
Neal Florence Basford 7b 353

so this could be her in 1911

Name: Florence Cutts
Age in 1911: 28
Estimated birth year: abt 1883
Relation to Head: Wife
Birth Place: Birmingham
Civil Parish: Bolsover
County/Island: Derbyshire
Street address: 28 St Whaley Thorns
Marital Status: Married
Registration district: Chesterfield
Johan Cutts 28 (it's John, not Johan) coal miner
Florence Cutts 28
John Cutts 9
Walter Cutts 8 born in Sutton

and unfortunately she had 4 other children who died



Buy Florence's marriage certificate to get the proof that it is her.


THEN look for her death under the name of Florence Cutts

Joonie then also posted the following, thinking it might be William, but with the wrong age ................. it is not unusual for that to happen!!



might this be Wiliam in 1911, his age overstated a little?

Name: William Neal
Age in 1911: 33
Estimated birth year: abt 1878
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Birmingham
Civil Parish: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire
Street address: 5 Back 5 Oozells Street North Birmingham
Marital Status: Widowed
Occupation: Carter
Registration district: Birmingham
William Neal 33
Sariah Ann Pettifer 48 widowed housekeeper
Flarence Neal 10
Glayds Neal 5
Ellen Neal 4

he has a daughter Florence ...

This looks as if it might be William in 1901 ...... with his name mis-spelled. Note that someone has already noted that it should be Neal.

It is indeed Neal on the image of the census


1901 Census

Name: William Leal
[William Neal]
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1878
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Spouse: Ada F Leal
Birth Place: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Civil Parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: All Saints
ED, institution, or vessel: 14

Piece: 2848
Folio: 7
Page Number: 6
Household schedule number: 40

William Leal 23 Carter
Ada F Leal 24 Pen worker
Florence Leal 4/12




hmmmmmmmmmmmm .......... htis looks like Ada's death, but that leaves the question of who is the mother of Gladys and Ellen, as both were born after 1903


Deaths Mar 1903 (>99%)

Neal Ada Frances 26 Birmingham 6d 37




and this looks like William and Ada's marriage .............


Marriages Dec 1897 (>99%)

NEAL William Birmingham 6d 345
Riley Ada Frances Birmingham 6d 345

naughty naughty naughty :-)




It looks as if Sariah Ann Pettifer was married to a Samuel Pettifer


Samuel Pettifer is still alive in 1911, but shows himself as Widowed ,,,,,,,, he has their children with him


Sariah says she is Widowed on the 1911, when she is living as Housekeeper for William Neal ..........................


but the Pettifer's are obviously just living apart.



This was not at all unusual ................ marriages broke down just as often then as they do now, but divorces were very difficult to obtain, and fat too expensive for most people.

So couples separated, and got on with their lives.



I would take a bet that Gladys Neal and Ellen Neal are the children of Sarah Ann Pettifer and William Neal

I wonder if this is Gladys birth registration???


Births Dec 1905 (>99%)

Neal Eva Gladys Birmingham 6d 1

Also, its still possible they could not write so whoever took the details could have just written what they heard so..............

Neal
Neale
Neil
Neill

All possible variations to consider :-D

This is birth/baptism that Sylvia found


Name:Eva Gladys Neale

Birth Date:21 Aug 1905

Baptism Date:10 Sep 1905

Baptism Place:Birmingham, Immanuel, Warwickshire, England

Address 5 *zell St

Father:
William Neale <<Carter

Mother:
Nelly Neale

Reference Number:DRO 12

Archive Roll:635

-------------------------------------


1911 Census

Name:William Neal

Age in 1911:33

Estimated birth year:abt 1878

Relation to Head:Head

Gender:Male

Birth Place:Birmingham

Civil Parish:Birmingham

County/Island:Warwickshire

Street address:5 Back 5 Oozells Street North Birmingham

Marital Status:Widowed

Occupation:Carter

Registration district:Birmingham

Registration District Number:384
Sub-registration district:Lady Woon

ED, institution, or vessel:2
Piece:17990

William Neal 33
Sariah Ann Pettifer 48
Flarence Neal 10
Glayds Neal 5 <<<<<<<<<<<<< Eva, using her middle name
Ellen Neal 4

hmmmmmmmmmmmm


Deaths Dec 1909 (>99%)

NEAL Nellie 34 Birmingham 6d 27

?????????????


Marriages Mar 1905 (>99%)

Neal William Birmingham 6d 81
WITHEY Nellie Birmingham 6d 81

?????????????


Births Sep 1906 (>99%)

Neal Nellie Florence Birmingham 6d 118



or


Births Dec 1907 (>99%)

Neal Ivy Ellen Birmingham 6d 41 Scan available - click to view

who could Nellie be? Its amazing that you have found all this out. THANK YOU!

Can anyone see The Original William Neals daughter Florences death certificate.

(FLORENCE CUTTS)

Found these 2 possibles

Name: Florence Cutts

Estimated birth year: abt 1883

Registration Year: 1911

Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec

Age at Death: 28

Registration district: Chesterfield

Parishes for this Registration District:
View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District

Inferred County: Derbyshire

Volume: 7b

Page: 827

OR


Name: Florence Cutts

Birth Date: abt 1886

Date of Registration: Sep 1963

Age at Death: 77

Registration district:Chesterfield

Inferred County:Derbyshire
Volume: 3a
Page: 79

I think it must be the first one. If someone dies in childbirth would the child be registered. how would i find out if Florence died in childbirth. ?

By ordering the death certificate.