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http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1351126

Looks like things are all coming together now Karen. Nice to see a success story :-)

News just in
My aunt - My father's sister has found Gladys' birth date in old family records. It is the same date as on Gladys' Jane certificate 16/05/1918

Things are becoming more clear!

I must be over-excited.
I mis translated the birth cert of Gladys and the address is down as 27 Dean St Ancoats - which is manchester.
So Choccy's John William Clough service records look like the one as it's the same address.

Births Jun 1918 (>99%)
Clough Gladys J Catlow Manchester 8d 534
[I read the page as 334 - correction submitted to FreeBMD]


Marriages Mar 1905 (>99%)
Clough John William Burnley 8e 327

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1905
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
CLOUGH John William CATLOW Margaret Great Marsden, St John the Evangelist Preston CE123/5/18

Just to clear up Choccy's WW1 service record entry locating the church in Helson, it's actually in Nelson.

Incidentally, although a search for either spouse in 1905 at:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=2576
gets no hits, it does look like the register is available if you browse the records via the right hand column, so either it's not been indexed yet, or Ancestry are displaying the transcription accuracy I've come to expect from them.
Note you're interested in entry # 18 (the last element in the local ref and 18's the entry #, not the page #).

Arrgh I'll never be a Miss Marple.
I forgot to say that:
Gladys's birth cert mother is Maragret Florence clough formerly Catlow - informant JW Clough
Dorothy's birth cert Mother is Margaret Florence Clough formerly Constantine - informant MF Clough

Father on both is John William.

Looks like you were right folks :-D

Have also just noticed that John William Clough's occupation on Gladys' birth cert is a Private in the West Riding Regiment (machine fitter) of 27 Ancoats st Manchester - had to get the magnifying glass out for that one.

Dorothy's birth cert has arrived John William is now a cricket groundsman and they're living at 156 Boundary St Southport

Karen this is the thrill and the frustration lol :-)

So much circumstantial evidence but.....personally I'm an Agatha :-)

But it certainly seems your mysterious Mr Clough was quite a lad. As said previously it is possible that the later children were really Florences'.

I have spent many hours and pounds trying to untangle a mystery only to find the real mother registers her daughter in the name of her dead sister supposedly married to the father :-S

Wow thank you all, I need to go through this more slowly . But my goodness what food for thought. You have to be a real Sherlock Holmes to come up with this lot! I do so hope this Mr Clough is mine!

Mmmmmmmmmm

If he was separated from Margaret in 1906, is it likely that he would be having children with her in 1918 and 1919 when his Army record shows Florence (unmarried) as his 'wife'.


Births Jun 1918

Clough Gladys J Catlow Manchester 8d 534


Births Sep 1919

Clough Elsie Catlow Fylde 8e 793


Could it be that Florence was using Margaret's maiden name to register the births?

Definitely a mysterious man
:-|

Big time lapse between children.......quite a lad it would seem!

Jude

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1905
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
CLOUGH Walter Colne Preston CATLOW COL/139/94

Dea x

Births Sep 1905

Clough Walter Burnley 8e 270


Deaths Dec 1906

Clough Walter 1 Burnley 8e 135

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription

Birchinlee Farm Nelson Lancashire, Nelson, Lancashire, England

John Catlow Head Married Male 50 1861 Lancs Trawden Brick Manufacturer And Farmer
Martha Mildred Catlow Wife Married Female 37 1874 Denbigh St Asaph N W -

>>>Margaret Clough Daughter Married Female 26 1885 Lancs Nelson Milliner

Robinson Catlow Son Single Male 24 1887 Lancs Nelson Brick Burner
Florrie Catlow Daughter Single Female 19 1892 Lancs Nelson Cotton Weaver
Hilda Catlow Daughter Single Female 17 1894 Lancs Nelson Cotton Weaver
Sarah Helina Catlow Daughter - Female 14 1897 Lancs Colne -
Edna Isabella Catlow Daughter - Female 7 1904 Lancs Nelson School
Samuel Catlow Son - Male 4 1907 Lancs Nelson -
Arthur Spencer Soames Servant Single Male 24 1887 Suffolk Little Stonham Cowman On Farm
Mary Ellen Tomlinson Boarder Widow Female 48 1863 Lancs Trawden Cotton Weaver

Margaret Clough states 1 child born who has now died

Posting, in case Harry and John William Clough are one and the same :-|

Burnley Gazette, 1st Aug 1906

Another case of domestic discord was heard by the Colne Bench of magistrates on Monday when John William Clough, described as a weaver, was summoned by his wife Margaret Clough for not providing proper maintenance for herself and child. They were married on the 11th March 1905. They had not a house for themselves but the couple had lived with defendant and his father and grandmother. Defendant, if he liked, could earn 26s per week and instructions were that the defendant did not like work and was lazy. He had not worked regularly since the first fortnight of the marriage. The last 6 months he had done no work at all and had contributed nothing toward the maintenance of complainant and child. Defendant had promised many times to get work but he had never done so.
Not content with that, in the night time defendant had got up out of bed and taken money out of his wife's pocket. On one occasion he took 10s and on another one he asked his wife for money and she refused to give him any. Defendant thereupon struck his wife and knocked her down and tried to obtain money from her. Defendant's father had asked him repeatedly to go to work and he had replied 'I am quite satisfied that you (meaning the complainant) can keep me and earn sufficient to keep the lot'.
The largest amount the defendant had given his wife was 19s.
Complainant, who resided at 65 Knotts Lane, Colne, and who is a milliner, stated that she was the daughter of JOHN CATLOW, brickmaker. A witness declared to the Bench 'you will have hard work to find a lazier man'.
The defendant did not appear and the Magistrates granted a separation order of 10s per week.

John William Clough's other address given as 36 Vicarage Lane, Marton, Blackpool

British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920


Name:John William Clough

Gender:Male

Birth Date:abt 1882

Age at Enlistment:36

Marriage Date:11 Mar 1905

Marriage Place:St Johns Helson Church

Residence Place:27 Dean St, Ancoats Manches??

Document Year:1918

Regimental Number:168524

Other Regimental Numbers:128524

Regiment Name:Royal Army Medical Corps

Number of Images:11

Form Title:Record of Service

John William Clough
Self (Head)

Jacob Frederich Callan (MISTRANSCRIBED) ! should read MARGARET CATLOW
Spouse

>>>>>>>>>>Gladys Jane Clough BORN 16TH MAY 1918<<<<<<<<<<<<
Child

Very interesting Choccy. Rather a good find, I would think.

??

British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920

Name:Harry Clough

Gender:Male

Birth Date:abt 1880

Age at Enlistment:36

Residence Place:20 Croft St, Bumley

Document Year:1916

Regimental Number:4982

Regiment Name:Lancs Fuser

Number of Images:20

Form Title:Record of Service



Search for 'Harry Clough' in other WWI collections

Harry Clough
Self (Head)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Florence Clough
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Unmarried Wife

used aliases of John William Clough and J. Parkman

sent to HM Prison, Walton, Liverpool to undergo sentence passed on 5th March 1924 at Chester Castle Petty Sessions - 6 months for larceny of cash and gents metal watch.