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So have we decided when Joseph died? It seems strange to me that Mary is head - with sons John and Miles among others - but described as single? So were they estranged? Or was she really widowed?

On the face of it John and Miles are brothers

Where is Miles a witness - I don't see it?

It's been a bright cold day her but thankfully dry :-)

Jude

Hi Jude

Not sure anyone said Miles was a witness??


Miles was not a witness on John and Hannah's marriage certificate ............ I do have that

Mary Wrigley was a witness


But then Chris spotted a Miles Wrigley going to the US

I found his Ellis Island record ................. and he says on there that sister "Ann" Wrigley had paid for his fare and that he was going to stay with her at 194 High Street, Newark

That is the address that John and Hannah went to on landing the previous year, saying they were staying with "sister Mrs Jackson".

Ann and Hannah seem to be transferable in this family, and I have seen my Hannah cited as Ann on a couple of records


I have not found Miles on any further US records ............. but I found his marriage in 1918, back in England ............. and that does seem to be the correct Miles.


Chris then found that the 1901 Census for 81 Belmont Street, the address John gave on his marriage certificate ........ with Mary Wrigley, and brother Miles and John



and, no, no-one has found when Joseph died



If that probate record for Mary is for my John's mother, then her husband Joseph was still alive in 1885 ................. or she had not changed her will :-).

and the daughter Mary was taking care of her 2 younger brothers on the 1891 and 1901 ....................


does this mean that Joseph died, or did he re-marry???

(so many Joseph Wrigleys!)

Wondering if Miles came back war time, if that's why we can't find him...
(annoying that Marriage isn't online!)

Chris :)

(Eleanor from the list was easy to trace, she died 1900, is with Daughter Ada 1891 not married until 1900 Thomas Taylor, Ada with him 1901 1911)


1881 (Find My Past)
Joseph Wrigley Lodger Married Male 47 1834 Out Door Labr (says Engine Turner) Oldham, Lancashire, England
House name (Slip Inn)
Street Hall Street
Parish Oldham
County Lancashire
Country England
Registration district Oldham
Archive reference RG11
Piece number 4078
Folio 111
Page 66

(possible for not being with family 1881)

Chris, Miles' marriage is on Ancestry...

Name: Miles Wrigley
Birth Year: abt 1873
Age: 45
Marriage Date: 27 Apr 1918
Parish: Hey, Lees, St John the Baptist
Parish as it Appears: Hey
Father's Name: Joseph Wrigley
Spouse's Name: Lily Hall
Reference Number: GB127.L38/1/3/3


Yes that's the 1881 census I concluded could possibly be him

Jude

Thankyou Jude was looking on OPC place, so much choice, lol.

(think this will run over winter months, when wer'e shut in!)

Chris :)

Oh Chris don't bring so much gloom! The forecast, if it is to be believed is not pleasant. I always hate the snow because I live on a hill thankfully at the bottom but always worry about my cars in the snow(being at the mercy of out-of-control other cars)!

I have six death certificates to work on (windfall this month :-) )but then I am going to try and get my teeth into this one for Sylvia!

Jude

(lol, well if they relate to your Llewellyn lot, i'm hibernating!)

Chris :)

(think probably more for this hiding New Jersey somewhere)

One does :-)

I still can't help wondering if John and Hannah came back home.........though I can find no evidence of it thus far....

Jude

Hi you two!!!


Thank you for your attempts to solve the problem


Common names eh???



Jude ................. no, John and Hannah did not come home, or at least I know Hannah did not


My mother (Hannah's goddaughter) got a letter around 1952/55 from a neighbour of Hannah's in Newark NJ to say that Hannah had died.

I remember the following quite clearly because Mum was pretty upset, although I don't have the letter .................

The neighbour wrote that she and her daughter had kept an eye on and helped Hannah for several years, that Hannah had asked them to send any of her belongings to my mother, but that "there was nothing worth sending in the mail"


Was that true???


I know it upset Mum.

So Hannah definitely died in Newark .......................... and I have a feeling that John died in the 1940s.


As far as any records show, Hannah never worked outside the home, John seemed to have quite menial jobs most of the time, censuses showed that they always rented the same house (at least from 1910 to 1940), so somehow they scraped by.


The one anachronism in John's jobs is his draft card on which it says he was a watchmaker at a certain company ...................... he was otherwise never more than a labourer or nightwatchman.

I think that he might have been a nightwatchman AT a watchmakers .................... because that draft card is definitely him!




do you think they were taken up to that great spaceship in the sky???

Sylvia, this is the beauty or the annoyance of this lark.....didn't those ancestors know what problems they would cause us in this technological age lol?

I can't believe how many Wrigleys there are! But then when I started my tree in 2004, I thought that some of my familial names were common but most were not...Hyde (wrong) Cording (wrong) Marchant (wrong) Homer (wrong) and then when I got to Irvines and Patties in Scotland and Llewellyns and Evans in Wales it was enough to make me give up....but I didn't :-)

The death certificates I have treated myself to - does that sound weird - have some "great" causes of death lol!

Jude

Jude

:-)


I have too many rellies up in that spaceship :-D


My grandmother's (and Hannah's) maiden name was Cottrell ........... which I thought would be easy, until I found it could also be spelled Cotterell, Cottrill, Cotterill, and with 1 or 2 "t"s and / or "l"s



That has turned out to be errrrrrrrrm .......... difficult!!!


I have a friend from FR days whose maiden name was Cottrell .................. we're convinced there has to be a connection somewhere, but her lot come from the west side of Cheshire, over towards the Wirral peninsula area, and mine all seem to come from the Ashton / Dukinfield area of Lancashire / Cheshire overlap


we have both got back to before 1800, with no seeming connection.



OH's ancestors are even worse ................ half of them are from Wales ---- Hughes, Roberts, Jones, Griffiths

and mostly with very common names ................. although the occasional name such as Corwenna does help :-)


The other half, mainly millers and farmers from Westmorland and north Lancashire, present their own problems .................... like 2 lines with the same surname obviously related way way back, and BOTH lines like the names Gilbert and Christopher, and both lines like to marry Elizabeths. Not only that, but one census will have Gilbert of line A living in a mill in Westmorland, but the next record will prove to have Gilbert of line B living at that mill


The back story seems to be that the family was Quaker back in the 1700 and 1800s, and were subject to discrimination .............. so moved back and forth between the 2 main areas, often just exchanging farms and mills!


They did all seem to get married in the Anglican church, though!

Well, have been staring at that Draft Record, trying to look up Benjamin & Johns 42 ??? Street Newark NJ on google...but can't make out name of Street (me being nosey, lol)

Chris :)

U.S., World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918 for John Wrigley (Ancestry)

I got Wanbr?? Street when I was working on it



My transcription of the draft card ..................

1917-18 Draft Card

John Wrigley, age 45, [born] 15 May 1873, 136 New Street
Occupation:- Watch Maker, Benjamin & Johns, 42 Wanbr(?) St, Newark
Wife:- Hannah
Height:- Short
Build:- Slender
Eyes:- Brown Hair:- Mix Grey
Date of Registration:- Sept 12 1918

that is the only record that I've seen where he gives an exact date of birth



as always ............... is it correct???

1/6/1900 194 High St Newark
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M9NB-RGH [with image link]
[marr 2 y; in US 2y; immig 1898 (for both)]

This is the only couple from the area who could have been marr in England for 2y
Marriages Jun 1898 (>99%)
Brookes Elizabeth Maud Chorlton 8c 1413
Jackson Samuel Leonard Chorlton 8c 1413

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1898
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
JACKSON Samuel L BROOKES Elizabeth M Whalley Range, St. Margaret Archives+, Manchester Central Library 111/5/76

mgnv .............

I know, I've tried to find a Samuel Jackson / Elizabeth marriage that would link up as "sister" to John, and failed miserably!

Unless of course, Elizabeth had been married before


somewhere, I came across a comment that their last place of residence in England was in Bury ............... can't now remember whether it was on a passenger list or Ellis Island.

I don't know Sam & Liz wed in the US or England.

Here's another sister - I inadvertently missed her off my last post.

Marriage: 8 Nov 1880 St John the Baptist, Hey, Lancs.
George Nixon - 28, Printer, Bachelor, Claytons
Hannah Wrigley - 22, Speed tenter, Spinster, Claytons
Groom's Father: Thomas Nixon, Labourer
Bride's Father: Joseph Wrigley, Spinner
Witness: James Lucas; Bethel Whitworth
Married by Banns by: George Docker Grundy
Register: Marriages 1860 - 1900, Page 90, Entry 179
Source: LDS Family Search

http://tinyurl.com/ot8xcvz


1881 England Census
Civil Parish: Saddleworth
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street address: Shelderslow
Registration district: Saddleworth
Sub registration district: Delph
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Piece: 4362 Folio: 88 Page Number: 37

George H. Nixon 28 Hurst, Lancashire, England Head M Railway Porter
Hannah Nixon 22 Saddleworth, Yorkshire, England Wife M Cotton Speed Tenter


1911 RD469 SD1
Schedule type Last names First names Sex Birth year Age in 1911 District / other County / other
HOUSEHOLD NIXON GEORGE M 1852 59 Oldham Lancashire
HOUSEHOLD NIXON HANNAH F 1859 52 Oldham Lancashire
HOUSEHOLD NIXON ETHEL F 1882 29 Oldham Lancashire
HOUSEHOLD NIXON JESSIE F 1895 16 Oldham Lancashire
HOUSEHOLD NIXON MARY ELIZABETH F 1897 14 Oldham Lancashire