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Empey
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8 Nov 2014 16:33 |
Please could someone look for Alice Lee, born in Bolton, Lancashire, around 1870, give or take a few years? She was last known in NZ, where she was married to Jim (or James) Halton. She may have sailed to NZ on the ship Rotarua (or similar) in 1913, with her sister in law Jane Lee and Jane's daughter Zipporah Lee. If so, I think she would be travelling under the name Lee, as a single lady.
Jane Lee's husband Thomas Henry Lee went to NZ in 1911.
Alice Lee may have had a child Elsie Lee in 1892, who died in the same year. An Elsie Lee is buried in the grave plot bought by my great-grandmother Jane Kenyon in 1890 for her husband James Kenyon. I have the grave deeds.
Jane Kenyon's daughter Jane married a Thomas Henry Lee (b1869) in 1894. Alice Lee was his sister.
Alice left the farm in NZ to her niece Zipporah, granddaughter of Jane Kenyon., maybe ingratitude for a kind deed many years ago.
An interesting story - if I can get any evidence for it. Of course, Elsie's birth cert is the only way to prove her parent (s).
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mgnv
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8 Nov 2014 17:36 |
These are the only possible deaths, and I think we can discount the London one:
Deaths Sep 1892 (>99%) Lee Elsie 0 Oldham 8d 464 Lee Elsie 0 Strand 1b 351
Using http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/
Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1892 Surname Forename(s) Age Sub-District Registers At Reference LEE Elsie 0 Chadderton Oldham CHAD/39/77
Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1892 Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference LEE Elsie Chadderton Oldham CLEGG CHAD/65/435
Maybe: Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1891 Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference LEE John C CLEGG Hannah Chadderton, St. Matthew Oldham CE208/7/91
and the matching GRO index entries: Births Jun 1892 (>99%) Lee Elsie Oldham 8d 715
Marriages Jun 1891 (>99%) Beachell Martha Ann Oldham 8d 753 Clegg Hannah Oldham 8d 753 Kershaw Samuel Oldham 8d 753 Lee John Charles Oldham 8d 753
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Empey
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8 Nov 2014 18:29 |
Thank you. I appreciate your efforts. However, as far as I can see, none of this explains why this child should be interred in the Bolton grave plot of my great grandmother, Jane Lee, on 20 October 1892. The only other people interred there, other than herself in 1918, are her husband, two of her married daughters (neither of whose surname was Lee) and two of her grandchildren who died young. The only connection seems to be through her daughter Jane Kenyon who married Thomas Henry Lee in 1894. If Jane had an illegitimate baby before marriage I believe it would be registered under Kenyon, her maiden name. Ummmmm.......
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mgnv
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8 Nov 2014 18:31 |
Go to https://familysearch.org/search/collection/1788853 and view the images by browsing down the following path England, Lancashire, Ches...rish Registers, 1603-1910 > Lancashire > Chadderton, St Matthew > Marriages, 1890-1896 > Image 46 of 250 [NB The local ref CE208/7/91 indicates the 7th register (here covering mid 1890 thru mid 1896) for church coded as CE208 (decoded by LancsBMD), and either page # 91 or entry # 91. Since LancsBMD identify the spouse, it will be an entry # here]
The image says John a=20 is s/o Thos, a mason, & Sarah Ann Lee is a witness, so I guess this h/h: 1881 England Census Civil Parish: Chadderton County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: 15 John St Registration district: Oldham Sub registration district: Chadderton ED, institution, or vessel: 1 Piece: 4085 Folio: 19 Page Number: 32
Thomas Lee 33 Hemingbrough, Yorkshire, England Head M Stone Mason Ann Lee 33 Pelsall, Staffordshire, England Wife M John Chas. Lee 10 Cleveland Lofthouse Son Scholar Sarah Ann Lee 8 Straithen, Yorkshire, England Daughter Scholar Thos. Hy. Lee 6 Cleveland Brothen Son Scholar Geo. Wm. Lee Chadderton, Lancashire, England Son
Here's your Jane:
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1894 Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference LEE Thomas H KENYON Jane Bolton, St Matthew Bolton 16/2/311
Using http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/
Marriage: 7 Apr 1894 St Matthew, Bolton, Lancs. Thomas Henry Lee - 26, Piecer, Bachelor, 41 Palmerston St. Jane Kenyon - 21, Spinster, 8 Nebraska St. Bride's Father: James Kenyon, Minder Witness: William Sidlow; Mary Alice Walsh Married by Banns by: Alfred Wood Curate Register: Marriages 1888 - 1897, Page 156, Entry 311 Source: Original Register
NB No dad named for your Thos Hy, but maybe John Lee is a cousin of your Thos Hy Lee.
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Empey
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8 Nov 2014 19:53 |
Thank you. Plenty of food for thought.
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Empey
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8 Nov 2014 20:23 |
Yes, that is Jane's marriage. However, I still cannot see why my great grandmother the first Jane Kenyon would have the child buried in her own grave, bought and kept for her family. It does not seem a close enough connection. Her daughter had not even married into the Lee family at the time.
Regarding the Lees: Thos Henry Lee had a sister Alice who does not appear in your 1881 census family. I know that people were sometimes absent from home at the time of the censuses but Alice is an important link in the chain (see above). I have not been able to find a census with a suitable Alice as well as a Thomas Henry. I know his approximate birth year but cannot find a birth ref. for her. It was a very common name. I have photos of her from the descendants of her niece Zipporah in NZ but they do not know her dob.
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brummiejan
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8 Nov 2014 21:37 |
Just butting in!
I assume this is not possibility, as you have given the year as 1892?
Manchester, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1915 about Elsie Lee Name: Elsie Lee Baptism Date: 12 Sep 1894 Parish: Bolton, St Matthew Parish as it Appears: Bolton, St Matthew Father's Name: Thomas Henry Lee Mother's name: Jane Lee Reference Number: GB127.L123/1/1/3
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Empey
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9 Nov 2014 07:46 |
Thank you for butting in. This must be the one. It makes sense of why the child was buried in Jane Kenyon's plot. Elsie was her granddaughter. It must have been a shotgun marriage. How sad the child died.
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Empey
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9 Nov 2014 07:49 |
Please can someone tell me about Thomas Henry Lee's sister Alice Lee who married Jim Halton, possibly in NZ? Did she go out to NZ on the ship Rotarua in 1913 with her sister in law Jane Lee and Jane's daughter Zipporah?
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rootgatherer
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9 Nov 2014 10:05 |
Is this Alice's death please? That would maybe give her age?
Name: Alice Halton Death Date: Jan-Feb-Mar 1941 Folio Number: 176
If this is your Alice's Notice of estates, she was a married woman and died intestate
Name: Alice Halton Death Date: 14 Jan 1941 Residence: Hamilton, New Zealand
Looks like James died the same year. He was a retired miner and died gestate.
Name: James Halton Death Date: 2 Sep 1941 Residence: Hamilton, New Zealand
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MaureeninNY
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9 Nov 2014 10:51 |
How does this look????
Lancs OPC Marriage: 11 Feb 1871 AllSaints, Bolton, Lancashire, England Benjamin Sidlow - (X), 27, Moulder, Bachelor, Little Bolton Mary Lee - 24, Spinster, Little Bolton Groom's Father: James Sidlow, Tailor Bride's Father: John Lee, Spinner Witness: John Lee; Maria Holliday, (X) Married by Banns by: Thos. Lowe Notes: Marriage solemnized at the Licensed School Room in the Parish of All Saints Bolton Register: Marriages 1857 - 1882, Page 124, Entry 247 Source: LDS Film 2356304 ............ 1871 England Census about Thomas H Sidlow Name: Thomas H Sidlow Age: 3 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868 Relation: Son Father's Name: Benjamin Sidlow Mother's name: Nancy Sidlow Gender: Male Where born: Bolton, Lancashire, England Civil Parish: Little Bolton Ecclesiastical parish: St George Town: Bolton County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Registration district: Bolton Sub-registration district: Little Bolton ED, institution, or vessel: 23 Household schedule number: 149 Piece: 3935 Folio: 99 Page Number: 27 Benjamin Sidlow 27 Occ:Iron moulder Nancy Sidlow 25 Thomas H Sidlow 3 Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 3935; Folio: 99; Page: 27 .... 1881 England Census about Thomas Sidlow Name: Thomas Sidlow Age: 13 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868 Relationship to Head: Son Father: Benjamin Sidlow Mother: Nancy Sidlow Gender: Male Where born: Bolton, Lancashire, England Civil Parish: Little Bolton County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: 36 Trafalgar St Occupation: Peicer (Mill Hand) (C) Registration district: Bolton Sub registration district: Little Bolton ED, institution, or vessel: 8a
Piece: 3834 Folio: 85 Page Number: 48
Benjamin Sidlow 36 Nancy Sidlow 34 Thomas Sidlow 13 William Sidlow 9 (witness at the marriage????) Elizabeth Sidlow 6 Mary Ellen Sidlow 2 >>>>>>>Alice Sidlow ............
41 Palmerston street-address for Thomas Henry at time of marriage 1891 England Census about Thomas Sidlow Name: Thomas Sidlow Age: 23 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868 Relation: Son Father's Name: Benjamin Sidlow Mother's name: Nancy Sidlow Gender: Male Where born: Bolton, Lancashire, England Civil Parish: Little Bolton Ecclesiastical parish: St James Town: Bolton County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Registration district: Bolton Sub registration district: Little Bolton ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Piece: 3114 Folio: 83 Page Number: 11
Benjamin Sidlow 46 Nancy Sidlow 44 Thomas Sidlow 23 William Sidlow 19 Elizabeth Sidlow 16 Mary E Sidlow 12 Alice Sidlow 10 John Sidlow 5 Annie Sidlow 4 Maggie Sidlow 2 Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 3114; Folio: 83; Page: 11
Maureen
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MaureeninNY
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9 Nov 2014 11:02 |
I don't see Alice going to New Zealand but it looks as though another sister went with Thomas (she's listed right after him on the manifest):
UK, Outward Passenger Lists, 1890-1960 about Mary Sidlow Name: Mary Sidlow Gender: Female Departure Date: 30 Mar 1911 Port of Departure: London, England Destination Port: Wellington, New Zealand Ship Name: Ionie
New Zealand, Marriage Index, 1840-1934 about Mary Ellen Sidlow Name: Mary Ellen Sidlow Gender: Female Marriage Year: 1911 Relation: Bride Spouse: Thomas Heaton Folio Number: 2194
Maureen
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MaureeninNY
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9 Nov 2014 11:21 |
Lancs Bmds SIDLOW Alice HALTON James Bolton Register Office or Registrar Attended Bolton RO/160/92
FreeBMD-I haven't checked to see which ref is incorrect: Marriages Dec 1907 SIDLOW Alice Bolton 8c 691 Marriages Dec 1907 HALTON James Bolton 8c 991
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rootgatherer
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9 Nov 2014 11:36 |
Maureen, looking at the images, I think 691 is correct.
Well found Maureen :-)
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rootgatherer
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9 Nov 2014 11:41 |
1911
Name: Alice Halton Age in 1911: 30 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881 Relation to Head: Wife Gender: Female Birth Place: Bolton, Lancashire, England Civil Parish: Bolton County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: 50 Chalfont St Bolton Marital Status: Married Occupation: Frame Tenter Registration district: Bolton Registration District Number: 461 Sub-registration district: Little Bolton ED, institution, or vessel: 18 Piece: 23402 Household Members: Name Age James Halton 35, Mill Labourer, b. Lancashire Alice Halton 30
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MaureeninNY
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9 Nov 2014 11:42 |
:-) :-) Thanks,Mrs Rootie!!!
I love it when the puzzle pieces fall into place like that!!
Maureenxx
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rootgatherer
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9 Nov 2014 11:49 |
1891
Name: James Halton Age: 16 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875 Relation: Son Mother's name: Mary Halton Gender: Male Where born: Turton, Lancashire, England Civil Parish: Turton Ecclesiastical parish: Walmesley (Walmsley) Town: Bradshaw County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status:
View image Registration district: Bolton Sub registration district: Turton ED, institution, or vessel: 3b Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 3110 Folio: 76 Page Number: 10 Household Members: Name Age Mary Halton 48 Eliz Alice Halton 25 Mary Halton 18 James Halton 16
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rootgatherer
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9 Nov 2014 11:53 |
That was a really good find Maureen. Very well done!
I still can't see any emigration records for James sand Alice though we now know they emigrated after the 1911 census was taken.
James and Alice are on the New Zealand Electoral Rolls by 1919
Name: James Halton Electoral Year: 1919 District: Waikato Region or Province: Waikato
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MaureeninNY
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9 Nov 2014 12:08 |
No luck on my part either. There's a Jas Halton going in 1911 but he's a gardener which doesn't seem to fit.
Oh well.
Maureen
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Chris Ho :)
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9 Nov 2014 13:17 |
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/ENG-LAN-BOLTON/2008-02/1203579289
(above for Zipporah, from google search, also Military for Rupert there)
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search/
Marriage 1925/2528 Zipporah Lee Rupert Cecil Rhodes
Deaths 1941/16139 Halton Alice 60Y 1941/22764 Halton James 65Y
24545/1899 RHODES RUPERT C THEOPHILUS I RUTH E REDFERN
(possible Birth above, from below)
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh.html
Chris :)
http://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast
(above worth a look NZ)
http://tinyurl.com/ncqhejb
(James Halton mentioned in above article)
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