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Poppina
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27 Sep 2014 04:45 |
Please be aware the above birth detail is deduced by info found on cencuses after 1881. Esther married Edward Benjamin Nobbin (b. c1838 in Paris) on 4 April 1864 in St Pancras Parish Church, London where her status is given as 'Widow' and fathers name is given as William Cain (or Cair), a coachman. The handwritten marriage entry can be viewed in the record 'London, England Marriages and Banns 1754-1921' by searching for her full name. The witness Robert Stone was Verger of St Pancras Church - any help deciphering the name of the other witness would be appreciated, as would opinions as to father's surname. In the 1881 cencus Esther is again widowed, working as a machinist and spelling her name with only one 'b'. Esther had 5 surviving children with Edward, all born in Pancras, London, before his death in 1874 the last born in the year of his death. The 1911 cencus, before her death in 1918 shows her at 81 (questionable) and living with daughter Maude, son in law William Barton and granddaughter Clara. All her cencus entries are consistent in her birth being Exeter, Devon.
Please, can anyone throw any light on her origins of birth and first marriage? I have searched for her birth - perhaps illegitimate to a mother named Hansford, and a Hansford/Welling previous marriage, also for Cain/Hansford and Cain/Welling marriages. Did William acknowledge paternity but didn't marry her mother? Was she informally adopted by him if her mother died or abandonned her?
I can find absolutely no trace. Does anyone have any idea that I have overlooked or any information at all? Ever hopeful. Thanks for reading and be assured I will be most grateful for any help.
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Susan
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27 Sep 2014 06:09 |
Poppina
I read the fathers name as William Cair and the witts as as
Robert Stone. N Bucheridge.
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SylviaInCanada
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27 Sep 2014 06:46 |
I agree with Sue
Unfortunately, N Bucheridge is also a witness on the following entry ........... thus indicating that he is also a "professional witness", like Robert Stone
so will be no use in identifying Esther's family
Could you please tell us where you have looked?
That might help us to avoid duplicating your research
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Flip
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27 Sep 2014 06:46 |
Esther Handsford Caer Gender:Female Baptism Date:4 Jul 1830 Baptism Place:St. Sidwell, Exeter, Devon, England Father: William Mother: Mary FHL Film Number:916841 Reference ID:v 6 p 119
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SylviaInCanada
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27 Sep 2014 06:48 |
Good one, Flip!
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Susan
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27 Sep 2014 06:49 |
That one looks good Flip,I have been looking for ages but no luck :-(
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Flip
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27 Sep 2014 06:51 |
There's this, but no Mr Welling so not sure:
Hester Hansford Care Registration Year:1849 Registration Quarter:Oct-Nov-Dec Registration district:Plymouth Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District Inferred County:Devon Volume:9 Page:522 Records on Page:Name
Ann Beer Hester Hansford Care John Burlace Davis James Ley Deborah Parkhouse John Scoble Edward Thomas Willey Mary Yeoman
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SylviaInCanada
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27 Sep 2014 06:56 |
I'm not surprised to see this on a Public Tree on ancestry ..................
Esther and Hester are often used in concert
No idea about the accuracy of the tree ................. but it may provide you with some other thoughts. Plus, if true ......... it shows where the Handsford came from!
Care-Cottrell Family Tree Owner: carecottrell
Esther/hester Hansford Care Birth 1830 in Exeter, Devon, England Death Mar 1918 in Greater, London, England
Parents
William Care Birth 1798 in Castle Cary, Somerset, England
Mary Handsford Birth 1801 in Beaminster, Dorset, England Death
Siblings
Eliza Jane Care 1831 – 1920
Mary Ann Care 1834 –
Harriet Care 1836 –
george care 1841 – 1930
George William Care 1842 – 1928
Walter Henry Care 1843 – 1928
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SylviaInCanada
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27 Sep 2014 07:01 |
???????possible for some of that family in 1841
1841 Census
Name: Mary Beare [Mary Ceare] Age: 39 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1802 Gender: Female Civil Parish: St Sidwell Hundred: Exeter City County/Island: Devon Country: England
Registration district: Exeter Sub-registration district: St Sidwell
Piece: 268 Book: 9 Folio: 10 Page Number: 15
Mary Beare 39 not born in county, note saying "husband ????boy" Sarah Beare 14 Esther Beare 10 Mary Ann Beare 7 Harriott Cease 5
Address:- St Sidwell Terrace No 5
NOTE .............. these names are also shown on the transcribed record with the Ceare family, but they are actually separate households
Wm Dolling 30 Thos Wankings 25 Sophia Carpenter 34 John Carpenter 2 William Carpenter 5 Mo Ann Cater 19
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SylviaInCanada
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27 Sep 2014 07:04 |
1851 Census
Name: Mary Carr [Mary Care] Age: 49 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1802 Relation: Wife Spouse's Name: William Carr Gender: Female Where born: Beaminster, Dorset, England Civil Parish: Plymouth St Andrew County/Island: Devon Country: England
Registration district: Plymouth Sub-registration district: St Andrew ED, institution, or vessel: 1t
Household schedule number: 118 Piece: 1879 Folio: 640 Page Number: 31
William Carr 52 b.ca 1799, Castle Cary, Somerset. Coach Man Mary Carr 49 Harriet Carr 16 at house George Carr 10 Scholar Walter Carr 9 Scholar Address:- 7 Princess Place
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Flip
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27 Sep 2014 07:19 |
Think this is her in 1851 - if so she married Edward Thomas Willey:
Hester Willey Age:21 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1830 Relation:Wife Spouse's Name:Thos Willey Gender:Female Where born:Exeter, Devon, England Civil Parish:Plymouth Charles the Martyr Ecclesiastical parish:Sutton on Plym County/Island:Devon Country:England Street address:Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Registration district:Plymouth Sub-registration district:Charles ED, institution, or vessel:1e Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number:214 Piece:1878 Folio:141 Page Number:52 Household Members:NameAge
Thos Willey 22 (Shoemaker, born Exeter) Hester Willey 21 (Dressmaker) Clara Willey 9 Mo (born Plymouth)
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SylviaInCanada
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27 Sep 2014 07:24 |
?????? Esther in 1861
1861 Census
Name: Esther Welling Age: 30 Estimated Birth Year: 1831 Relation: Head Gender: Female Where born: Exeter, Devon, England Civil Parish: St Giles Town: London County/Island: Middlesex Country: England
Registration district: St Giles Sub-registration district: St Giles South ED, institution, or vessel: St Giles and Bloomsbury United Parish Workhouse
Household schedule number: 28 Piece: 169 Folio: 4 Page Number: 5
Esther Welling 30 Widow, Seamstress Clara Welling 10 b.ca 1851, Plymouth, Devon, Daughter, Scholar Thomas Welling 8 b.ca 1853, London, Son, Scholar
Address:- 12 Gt Wild Street
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SylviaInCanada
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27 Sep 2014 07:26 |
Flip
That 1851 census that you found fits with the 1861 that I found ................... with Clara as the daughter
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Flip
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27 Sep 2014 07:31 |
I agree Sylvia, so either she had another husband in between or the name got changed a bit. I'd be inclined to believe the latter.
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SylviaInCanada
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27 Sep 2014 07:33 |
I looked at the freebmd image of her marriage ........... and it is Welling
It is handwritten, and I wondered if there was a possibility of mis-transcription
Marriages Jun 1864 (>99%)
Nobbin Edward Benjamin Pancras 1b 67 Welling Esther Hansford Pancras 1b 67
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SylviaInCanada
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27 Sep 2014 07:37 |
Flip
I'd guess the name got changed along the line
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SylviaInCanada
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27 Sep 2014 07:40 |
??????
England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about Clara Jane Willey
Name: Clara Jane Willey Registration Year: 1850 Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep Registration district: Plymouth Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District Inferred County: Devon Volume: 9 Page: 364
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SylviaInCanada
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27 Sep 2014 07:45 |
and this looks like Clara living with ehr grandparents in 1871
1871 Census
Name: Clara Willie Age: 20 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851 Relation: Granddaughter Gender: Female Where born: Devon, England Civil Parish: Camberwell Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch Town: Peckham County/Island: Surrey Country: England Registration district: Camberwell Sub-registration district: Peckham ED, institution, or vessel: 25 Household schedule number: 47 Piece: 734 Folio: 111 Page Number: 14
Willm Care 75 b.ca 1796, Beaminster, Dorset, Tobacconist Mary Care 70 b.ca 1801, Castle Cary, Somerset Clara Willie 20 General Servant Address:- 2 Park Road
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SylviaInCanada
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27 Sep 2014 07:49 |
London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
Name: Clara Jane Willey Spouse: William Thomas Ward Record Type: Marriage Event Date: 4 Nov 1872 Parish: St Mary Magdalene, Bermondsey Borough: Southwark Father Name: Thomas Willey <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Spouse Father: William Thomas Ward Register Type: Parish Register
Father occupation:- Boot and Shoe Maker
It does not say that he is dead
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Flip
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27 Sep 2014 07:50 |
That looks good for Clara, I was just looking for her to see what name she was under.
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