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Thank you Flip and I agree - a stronger link would be good.

Although the Joseph Poole (1796-1876) in Carlisle states he born in Bolton in 1851/1861 and in Lancashire in 1871.

Both he and Mary Tennant have children with the names Henry and Isabella and Jane, and he has a daughter Sarah and Mary has at least two granddaughter's named Sarah.

Hope I am not sounding like I'm clutching at straws. Just trying to give a full picture.

Both Joseph Poole and Mary Tennant are also in Botchergate in 1861.

With that, Mary's baptism in Cockermouth provides no other details other than names of parents and baptism date. I wonder if Joseph's in Bolton does?

PS I am not local to Carlisle but it would be good to see that will of Margaret ... what date is it for please? And I also wonder WHY the name POOLEY changes to POOLE and why Henry Poole (d 1819) isn't included in the 1808 will for Henry Tolson - perhaps it is another one?!

Names changed over time, often because people couldn't read/write and it depended on the person completing the record to hear it correctly and get it spelt right.

The will was dated 1808 - this is not necessarily when she died.

If you haven't already found this site - you can search what they have in the different depositories:

http://www.cumbria.gov.uk/archives/online_catalogues/default.asp

But probably not much use if you're not able to go take a look for yourself.

Not yet, but a good reference for the future!

Interesting both Henry Tolson and his wife had wills proved at the same time.

Ahhh to have more valid records - forgive me, but did you manage to look through the will for Henry Tolson?

I do wonder if the one dated 1808 is the 'correct' one for the reference in the 1845 administration?

Peter

Yes, i had a read through the will it's quite lengthy - and I can't see any mention of Henry. I don't know that his wife's will was proved in 1808 - she may have just wrote the will after the death of her husband. It is a copy of her will, submitted to the RO with other papers (maybe from a solicitor?)

Going back to the question re the baptism record - the parish record may have more, but I've looked at Lanc-opc and it doesn't have the records on-line. The info has come from one of the familysearch.org films.

Thank you - I should look into that. I don't suppose it would matter seeing the 1796 Bolton baptism as the 1790 one for Cockermouth doesn't give much away!

Hmmm I didn't expect all of this when I woke up this morning.

Hmmmm ....you started the thread ;-)

I did wonder if we'd skipped a generation with the Tolson will found by Gritty - but don't think so. Henry did not mention any children in his will, only wife, sister and various other relatives - so unless he had fallen out with his own children this is unusual. Also, from the summary of Margaret's will on the Cumbria Archives site it looks like her heirs were her cousins and neices. It all points to them not having children.

Sometimes the father's occupation is on the parish register, but if it didn't give this on Mary's then the Bolton baptisims are not likely to help even if they do give his occupation.

Check this out, there are 5 Tolson's buried in same grave - you can e-mail for monument inscription. Margaret died in 1814.

http://www.cockermouthmuseumgroup.org.uk/MI_bride4.htm

No sign of her will being proved on the ancestry records though (where Gritty found Henry's).

If you haven't been going to Carlisle archives how have you been managing to locate the information re Joseph and his claim on Henry Tolson's estate? Also, have you tried to trace John & Sarah born in Bolton - did they move back to Cumberland with the family?

Hi again Flip, I have been to Carlisle Archives but not sure when I will get chance to get back. I am not based close to the area but do have friends in Whitehaven, and actually a relative lives in Cockermouth! Haha small world.

With that I have emailed the Cockermouth Museum Group and will post findings.

I only looked up the administration record for Henry Poole quite by chance. And RE John and Sarah from Bolton. Yes, I have tried searching for them. Joseph Poole married in 1816 in Carlisle and a witness was 'John Poole'. I didn't manage to see his second marriage to Jane Hounham. John doesn't seem to appear on the census so perhaps died young? Carlisle seems poorly covered by the NBI.

Not managed to find anything on Sarah but looked less for at the moment. I thought she might be Sarah Stewart living with Mary Tennant in 1841 but age is out and she seems to be 'singlewoman'.

How did you find the link for the Tolson Memorial?

I think we have the correct family in Isell:

POOLEY Baptism:

Joseph 1765
HENRY (1767-1819)
Mary 1769
Elizabeth 1771
Jane 1773
William 1775

THEN:

POOLE

Margaret 1777
Tolson 1778
Hannah 1780-1780
Isabella 1783

Heard back from Cockermouth Museum Group - fantastic headstone!

"In memory of Henry Tolson of Papcastle who departed this Life November 19th 1767 aged 55. Also of Mary Poole his grand daughter who died 15th Dec. 1780 Aged 11 years. And also of Elizabeth Tolson, his Daughter, who died the 12th of May 1781 Aged 39. And also Ann his Wife who died April 19th 1789 Aged 71.

Henry Tolson of Papcastle Esq. son of the above Henry and Ann Tolson, who died Nov. the 22nd 1807 aged 62 years. Also of Mrs Margaret Tolson Wife of the above Henry Tolson of Papcastle Esq. who departed this life the 22nd of February 1814 in the 64th year of her age."

That was quick! Found it by googling the name..and it looks like you may have found your Henry - Isel is in the Bridekirk parish, shame there were no Poole(y)'s on the MI database.

Near the bottom of page 2 of the will, it's difficult to read, but part of the estate was to be divided between "Nephews & Neices" Joseph Poole, HENRY, William, Tolson,

Ann Thompson (wife of Anthony), Elizabeth Cooke (can't read hubbies name), Jane (or Janet) Poole, Margaret Smythe (wife of Richard), Isabella Poole.

In that order, could this be in age order. Basically, if any of them died it would go to their children or if no children be split between remaining survivors.

The writing is not very easy to read, and I missed Henry when I first scanned through the document. This is after various bequests to specific members and his wife & sister, this is not word for word it is difficult to follow.

As we can't download copies of follow-on pages of the will, just realised it's available to down load from national archives (£3.30).......

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D315873

Oh really well spotted Flip!!! It does say Henry :)

and Peter, the headstone with Grandaughter, Mary Poole, plus the names of nephews and nieces in the will certainly point to the Isel Poole family being the correct one.

On the Henry Poole/ Mary Grave marriage bond, I had presumed that it was signed by their fathers, but if this was the case it would say John Poole-

After reading about bonds I think it would've been signed by Henry himself and Mary's father or relative. There's a little bit about them here:

https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/England,_Durham_Diocese,_Marriage_Bonds_and_Allegations_%28FamilySearch_Historical_Records%29

This is listed on FMP- not sure if it's the correct one- executor was a H? Smith, Cockermouth, Brigham

Index to Death Duty Registers Transcription
Margt Tolson
Death year 1814
Residence COCKERMOUTH BRIGHAM
County CUMBERLAND
Court PCC And Country Courts
Record set Index to Death Duty Registers 1796-1903
TNA ref IR27/151
Record collection Wills & probate

Possibly Henry's father:

Index to Death Duty Registers Transcription
JOHN POOLE
Death year 1808
Residence EGREMONT
County CUMBERLAND
Court Chester Deanry Courts Of Amounderness, Copeland, Furness, Kendall And Lonsdale
Record set Index to Death Duty Registers 1796-1903
TNA ref IR27/74
Record collection Wills & probate

Henry Tolson' s sister?

Index to Death Duty Registers Transcription
MARY POOLE
Death year 1817
Residence LITTLE MILL ST JOHNS
County CUMBERLAND
Court PCC And Country Courts
Record set Index to Death Duty Registers 1796-1903
TNA ref IR27/162
Record collection Wills & probate

Executor was Henry Cooke of Little Mill

(Executor possibly the husband of Elizabeth Cooke (nee Poole)- the niece mentioned in H Tolson's will?)

D LAW/1/306/14 1808
These documents are held at Cumbria Record Office, Carlisle Headquarters

Copy of Will of Margaret Tolson of Papcastle, widow [of Henry Tolson, see below] - real estate (all to be sold), ½ house and its land at Brandling Gill, and 2 houses and their land in Mosser called Gillbrow and High House; effects include named books from her bookcase "in the best Parlour"; devisees were her cousins and nieces


D LAW/1/306/16 24 Oct. 1814
These documents are held at Cumbria Record Office, Carlisle Headquarters

Contents:
The conveyance for the preceding (William Poole of Whitehaven, corn factor, devisee in trust of the late Henry Tolson of Papcastle, gent., John Simpson of Redmain gent., Alice Frears of Ravenglass spinster, cousin and cust. heir of Jane Head of Brandling Gill spinster deceased and of Margaret Tolson of Papcastle widow deceased, and Mary Poole of Maryport widow and sister of Henry Tolson deceased, to Henry Allason [sic] of Mosser, yeo.) reciting re Cleaty Bank from the late Henry Tolson's time (both parts, the 3s. 11d. and the 4s. 0½d.), and that Henry Tolson died on 22 Nov. 1807 leaving to Margaret his widow all his real estate at Papcastle, Hameshill, Cleaty Bank, Brandling Gill, and Aspatria, to be sold to pay the legacies etc.; Royal Arms at head, dealer's name beneath

(not sure if above fits anywhere!, worth a look for names on below)

http://apps.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/advanced-search.aspx?tab=1

Chris :)


County Cumberland
Place Dearham
Church St Mungo Bt
RegisterNumber
MarriageDate 12 Apr 1737
GroomForename Henery
GroomSurname TOLSON
GroomAge
GroomParish Pipecastle
GroomCondition
GroomOccupation
GroomAbode
BrideForename Anne
BrideSurname SIMSON
BrideAge
BrideParish Cockermouth

(if any use!)

http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl


England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973 (Ancestry)
Name: Henery Eolson
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 12 Apr 1737
Marriage Place: Dearham,Cumberland,England
Spouse: Anne Simson
FHL Film Number: 90612

This is the marriage of the niece of Henry Tolson- transcribed as Nanny, but on their children's baptism she is Ann Poole

Marriage:
Nanny Poole
Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 30 Sep 1788
Marriage Place: Crosscanonby, Cumberland,England
Spouse: Anthony Thompson
FHL Film Number: 90600

Children:
Mary Ann 1789 Isel
Jane 1791 Isel
John 1793 Isel
Margaret b & d 1794 Isel
Anthony b & d 1796 Isel
Elizabeth b & d 1797 Isel
Henry 1798 Isel
Isabella 1802 Bridekirk
Mary 1807 Bridekirk
Anthony 1811 Bridekirk

Possible marriage of another niece listed in Henry Tolson's will, Elizabeth:

Marriage:
Elizabeth Poole
Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 12 Feb 1797
Marriage Place: Saint Bees,Cumberland,England
Spouse: Henry Cooke
FHL Film Number: 0496433 PT 3 IT 1