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I appreciate and understand your comments about info supplied at marriage - but one of you had asked what was actually on the marriage certificate re the father............!
David

I appreciate and and understand your comments about info supplied at marriage - but one of you had asked what was actually on the marriage certificate re the father............!
David

actually, I think "Mercantile Marine" was quite an unusual phrase to use back then


it was commonly just put as Merchant seaman, or even just seaman ..................... someone in the Royal Navy almost always had "seaman R.N."


someone else may know better ................ but I feel that Mercantile marine was more a US terminology back then than the UK

David ..............


yes, but as I posted ........... that is NOT evidence that he really was dead.


You did not have to provide any certificates to prove that what you say is true

We certainly didn't have to provide any proof of what we told the vicar when we got married .............. he knew my OH's family, but he'd never seen me before.



That's how all the bigamists got away with it .................... they didn't have to prove they were a spinster or bachelor or widow / widower

Similarly, the couple did not have to provide certificates to prove the name of the father or his death.

Celtic and Sylia
From her marriage cert:
Father: Thomas Hasbey (deceased); Seaman (Mercantile Marine)

I presume the latter means merchant navy, not Royal navy
NB as mentioned before I think, they were married at Queens Road Chapel, Wimbledon which was a Baptist Chapel; I'm confident that Arthur was not Baptist - so perhaps she was????
David

I'll just throw a small spanner into what Celtic said in her last post ...................


information that a father is deceased on a marriage certificate is not proof that the father is indeed dead.


It just means that the child either believes he is dead, or doesn't know anything about the father, so says he is deceased to avoid questioning as to why he is not at the wedding.

so you cannot guarantee that you will find a death certificate.


Of course, the reverse also applies!


Not having "deceased" by the name of the father does not necessarily mean that he is still alive ...................

again the child may not know anything, but assumes

OR, very simply, the vicar did not ask the correct question ..............

"What is the name of your father?"

vs. "What is the name of your father, and is he still alive?"


the former may not elicit the answer "but he's dead", just because the question was not asked, and many people do not volunteer information.

Just throwing this into the pot. Can't find him on the census though.

First name(s) THOMAS
Last name HASBY
Birth year 1840
Birth date 11/03/1840
Baptism year 1840
Baptism day 24
Baptism month June
Father's first name(s) Thomas Webster
Mother's first name(s) Elispeth Forbes
Father's occupation Rope Maker
Address Poplar
Parish All Saints
Place POPLAR
Notes -
Church address East India Dock Road
Location of church Poplar
County London
Country England
Transcriber note -
Archive reference X089/097
Record set Docklands Ancestors
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Record collection Births & baptisms
Collections from Great Britain
Docklands Ancestors Ltd


Found him. He is Harby. Living in Poplar. Thomas senior is a rope maker

Thos Harby Male 35 1806 -
Elizth Harby Female 21 1820 -
Thos Harby Male 1 1840 Middlesex
George Johnston Male 40 1801 Scotland
Anne Coleman Female 20 1821 -
Sophia Coleman Female 20 1821 -
Ann Dunks Female 17 1824

Just another idea, but it might be worth trying to find a death for her father. See if you get any clues to wife.

Jane says he is deceased when he married, which means he would of died between her birth and her marriage.

The only issue you might have is if he died at sea (you might have to check different death indexes in that case).

I would say he is most likely never with family in the census being a seaman, at least that was the case for one of my ancestors, I think he only appeared in one census at home, the rest of the time he was out at sea.

It also might be an idea to try a piece together Hasbeys and similar variations in the Greenwich area, with such a rare name, they must be connected.

Also just one other thing, does it definitely say seaman on her marriage cert?

SylviaInCanada
Thank you for looking for Asby in other census returns...........
'Hasbey' seems to be a VERY rare (or non-existent) surname. I wonder if this family were 'foreigners' who changed their surname to make it sound Anglicised ???? In which case we may never identify them. Am considering getting the will of Jane Ann Hann in the hopes she may have made bequests to 'Hasbey' relatives - but it would be a long shot...She definitely made a will (died 1961 aged 90); I wish I had met her - I would have had some questions for her............
I can access Genes but not other websites (very annoying.......)
David

SylviaInCanada
Thank you for looking for Asby in other census returns...........
'Hasbey' seems to be a VERY rare (or non-existent) surname. I wonder if this family were 'foreigners' who changed their surname to make it sound Anglicised ???? In which case we may never identify them. Am considering getting the will of Jane Ann Hann in the hopes she may have made bequests to 'Hasbey' relatives - but it would be a long shot...She definitely made a will (died 1961 aged 90); I wish I had met her - I would have had some questions for her............
I can access Genes but not other websites (very annoying.......)
David

I hate being defeated by difficult names, so this ancestor of yours is bugging me lol

Okay looks like Jane Ann Darby married in 1888 in Westminster, so you can add this to your list of ruled out individuals.

I think it would be a good idea to start a list a ruled out people, so you don't re look over the same people again and again (I have done this before when scratching my head at some ancestors lol)

Okay have found this possible family in 1871 and 1881


1881
Name: William Darby
Age: 37
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1844
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Jane Ann Darby
Gender: Male
Where born: Woolwich
Civil Parish: St James
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 27 and 28 Marlborough Rd London Salvage Corp
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: London Sal Corps
Registration district: Westminster
Sub-registration district: Golden Square
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 123
Folio: 63
Page Number: 8
Household Members:
Name Age
William Darby 37
Jane Ann Darby 34
Jane Ann Darby 11
William H.J. Darby 4
Annie Darby 1

I can't see Jane after 1881, I am trying to find a marriage to rule her out. Fathers name is of course out, but a google of London salvage company does suggest some workers were recruited from the Royal Navy.

I can't find the "hamby's" on any other census

CS

not sure we did rule him out!

This looks like him in 1861 ................. and only the 1861 and 1871 show up on ancestry with that surname



1861

Name: Thomas H Hamby
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: 1837
Relation: Son
Father's Name: George Hamby
Mother's name: Elizabeth Hamby
Gender: Male
Where born: Southampton
Civil Parish: Southampton St John
Town: Southampton
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England

Registration district: Southampton
Sub-registration district: Southampton
ED, institution, or vessel: 43

Household schedule number: 219
Piece: 679
Folio: 24
Page Number: 41

George Hamby 51 b.ca 1810, Eling, Hampshire, Labourer
Elizabeth Hamby 53 b.ca 1808, Eling
Thomas H Hamby 24 Labourer
Thomas H Charles 24 b.ca 1837, Maymouth, Boarder, Mariner <<<<< his name should be plain Thomas Charles

Also can we rule any of these out by census or other records?

Name: Jane Ann Dabin
Registration Year: 1872
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration district: Greenwich
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 821


Or

Name: Jane Ann Darby
Registration Year: 1869
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: Greenwich
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 790

Or

Name: Jane Ann Hanks
Registration Year: 1870
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Greenwich
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 744

Have we definitely ruled out this one in 1871


Name: Thos Hamby
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Ab (Seaman)
Gender: Male
Where born: Titchfield, Hampshire, England
Civil Parish: Vessels
Town: Woosung River Shanghai
County/Island: Royal Navy
Country: England
Registration district: Royal Navy
Sub-registration district: Royal Navy
ED, institution, or vessel: Hornet
Household schedule number: 1
Piece: 5781
Folio: 111
Page Number: 2

I posted It on page 3, but not sure it was seen. I originally thought it was the Thomas with mother Ann, but now we know he is William, this must be someone else.

*asb*y brings up 1 or 2 people in several censuses .................... asbury among them. Most of them are Cheshire born and bred


but Thomas does not appear in any other census

David ........

I'm just looking on ancestry


the only census that Thomas *asby shows up on is the 1861

* is a wild card symbol that can be used instead of one or more letters where you are not sure of the spelling.


His birthplace is shown as Nantwich, Cheshire on the transcribed record sheet ............ but could be either Nantwich or Northwich on the image!

I'm leaning to Nantwich :-)

How about this:
1861 census: Thomas Asby, aged 15, 'Hand' on ship 'Birmingham' born Northwich (?) Cheshire.
Please can some one look for him in later census records? I am unable to access other internet sites due to computer problems...........
Asby = Hasbey ? (father of Jane Anne was Thomas Hasbey seaman, on marriage cert)
David