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1891 (Find My Past)
Mary Ann Forbes Head Widow Female 30 1861 Laundress London
William Forbes Son - Male 9 1882 - London
George Castle Boarder Single Male 34 1857 Bricklayers Labourer London
Margaret W Donnell Head Widow Female 56 1835 Laundress London
Eleanor Forbes Granddaughter - Female 12 1879 - London
Street Paradise Walk
Parish Chelsea
Enumeration district 5
Series RG12
Piece number 63
Folio number 181
Page 67

(bit confusing!, all above at 18 Paradise Walk, and possibly below couple, not seeing 21)


Marriages Sep 1872 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------
Donell Thomas Kensington 1a 66
Goodman Mary Ann Kensington 1a 66

Chris :)


(Margaret W Donnell abt 1835 Wests, London, England Head Chelsea, London)
or, as above on Ancestry)

This, I think, is Henry Forbes mother re-marrying:


Joseph Beard
Estimated birth year:abt 1816
Age:50
Spouse: Ann Forbes
Spouse Age:40
Record Type:Marriage
Event Date:18 Oct 1866
Parish:St Luke, Chelsea
Borough:Kensington and Chelsea
Father Name:Adam Beard
Spouse Father:Richard Powell
Register Type:Parish Register

Both are widowed. His address is 21 Paradise Walk and her's 25 Paradise Walk.

I think this is Henry's baptism (they are on the 1851/61 census)


Henry George Forbes
Record Type:Baptism
Baptism Date:2 Oct 1845
Father's Name:Marcus Forbes <<Mariner
Mother's name:Ann Forbes
Parish or Poor Law Union:Chelsea St Jude
Borough:Kensington and Chelsea
Register Type:Parish Registers

Of 4 Turks Row, christened same day was sister Maria age 2 1/2

Here they are in 1871 at 25 Paradise Walk:


Joseph Beard
Age:54
Estimated birth year:abt 1817
Relation:Head
Spouse's Name:Ann Beard
Gender:Male
Civil Parish:Chelsea
Ecclesiastical parish:Christchurch
County/Island:London
Country:England
Registration district:Chelsea
Sub-registration district:Chelsea, South
ED, institution, or vessel:13
Household schedule number:302
Piece:76
Folio:93
Page Number:50
Household Members:
NameAge
Joseph Beard 54
Ann Beard 49
Henry Toole 25 <badly transcribed Forbes
Charles Toole 18 < ditto
William Ward 4 <grandson
Robert Gale 23 (boarders)
Ellen Gale 21

Although Henry and Charles are down as "son in laws", I believe it should say stepsons.

They are still at 25 Paradise Walk in 1881, no Henry, but Charles has been correctly transcribed as Forbes on this census.

I can't find Henry or Joseph Beard in 1891 census, but the 1892 electoral rolls show Joseph living 25 Paradise Walk, and Henry Forbes is listed at 21.

ADDED: Joseph appears on ERs from 1883 in Paradise walk, but Henry is not recorded at 21 in 1883. He is recorded 1891/2/6 - but no one is registered to vote from 21 in 1903 when Joseph is recorded at no.27.

Henry is last recorded at that address on 1898 ERs.

So is 21 Paradise Walk just not listed on the 1891census and that's why we can't find the family?

So Henry dies in 1897- last address 21 Paradise Walk. In 1899 his wife Eliza is listed at same address on the Electoral Register, but by 1901 she has moved to Woolwich.

That's right Helen, it only appears to go up to 19a - I tried looking for a couple of other people in the street, but they are not showing up either despite being on ERs.

Not getting any nearer to the elusive marriage though - I think the only way to establish Eliza's maiden name is to get one of the birth certificates.

Has anyone found a birth for Henry age 3 according to the 1881 census? I can't find one, but there is a birth for Harry Forbes Q3/1877 in Chelsea.

If this is him, he looks to have married a widow (Mary Jane Perrin, nee Griffin) in 1909 and moved to Mortlake, Surrey according to 1911 census. On the marriage he named his father as Henry Forbes, but unhelpfully it just says dead rather than give an occupation. Looks like he died in WW1:


Harry Forbes
Birth Place:Chelsea, Middx.
Residence:Mortlake, Surrey
Death Date:18 Oct 1917
Death Place:France and Flanders
Enlistment Place:Battersea, Surrey
Rank:Sergeant
Regiment:Rifle Brigade
Battalion:7th Battalion
Regimental Number:B/457
Type of Casualty:Died of wounds
Theatre of War:Western European Theatre
Comments:M.M.
Other Records:
Search for 'Harry Forbes' in other WWI collections

CWG gives some other info:

Serjeant Service No:B/457 Date of Death:18/10/1917 Regiment/Service:Rifle Brigade 7th Bn. Awards:M M Grave Reference: I. O. 41. Cemetery:GODEWAERSVELDE BRITISH CEMETERYAdditional Information: Husband of M. J. Forbes, of 81, Avondale Rd., Mortlake, London

British Army Service Records 1760-1915

First name(s) HARRY

Last name FORBES

Birth year 1877

Birth parish CHELSEA
Birth town LONDON
Birth county MIDDLESEX
Birth country ENGLAND

Service number 4821

Regiment Rifle Brigade (Prince Consort's Own)

Document Type Attestation
Attestation year 1896
Attestation Day 4
Attestation Month 1
Attestation age years 19
Attestation age months 5

Attestation Corps
Rifle Brigade (Prince Consort's Own)

Attestation service number 4821

Discharge Corps Rifle Brigade (Prince Consort's Own)

Series chelsea pensioners british army service records 1760-1913
Box 4857
Box Record Number 46
Record set British Army Service Records 1760-1915
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Record collection Regimental & service records
Collections from Great Britain

Father - Henry Mother - Elizabeth
Brothers - William and Richard
Sisters - Ellen, Annie and Mary

>>>>>>>>>>>>Address - 21 Paradise Walk, Queens Road, Chelsea

Hi SylviainCanada Thanks, yes, that looks promising for Ellen

British Army Service Records 1760-1915 Transcription

First name(s) WILLIAM
Last name FORBES

Birth year 1887

Birth parish CHELSEA
Birth town LONDON
Birth county MIDDLESEX
Birth country ENGLAND

Service number 718

Regiment Rifle Brigade (Prince Consort's Own)
Document Type Attestation
Attestation year 1905
Attestation Day 20
Attestation Month 1
Attestation age years 18
Attestation age months 8
Attestation Corps Rifle Brigade (Prince Consort's Own)

Attestation service number 718
Discharge Corps Rifle Brigade (Prince Consort's Own)

Series chelsea pensioners british army service records 1760-1913
Box 4857
Box Record Number 19
Record set British Army Service Records 1760-1915
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Record collection Regimental & service records
Collections from Great Britain

Mother - Elizabeth - address unknown
Brother - Harry - Rifle Brigade
Brother - Richard Joseph - address unknown
Sister - Annie SANDIFORD 42 High Field Road, Fulham

Discharged 1905
Intended place of residence - 1 Ashley Avenue, Cheriton, Folkestone, Kent

??
1911 FMPast
First name(s) Eliza
Last name Forbes

Marital condition Widow
Gender Female
Age 61
Birth year 1850
Occupation Laundress
Birth place London Westminster
Address 27 Sand St Woolwich
Registration district Woolwich

Enumeration district 15
Census reference RG14
Census reference RG14PN2872 RG78PN98 RD30 SD2 ED15 SN194
Piece number 2872

Says married 38 years 10 children-6 still living.

Wow, everyone. Thanks so much for all your hard work. I think I need to sit down in a darkened room and go through what you've uncovered to make sense of it!
I'm undertaking this research for one of the Chelsea Pensioners (the Men in Scarlet). I'm a volunteer there and the person concerned was interested in knowing a little more about his father's side. I, with your help, am certainly getting there.
It's quite a coincidence that Paradise Walk is virtually next door to the Royal Hospital Chelsea, where my pensioner now resides.
I think I will have to purchase the birth certificate of one of Henry's children in order to determine Eliza's maiden name, as suggested.
Once again, many thanks.

Good find on that military record Choccy, think it confirms the marriage/census/death are likely to be him.

Which of their children was his direct line - it may be good to get that birth certificate for him?

ADDED: once you come out of the darkened room let us know if you want any more research..... and it's a great job you're doing volunteering like that, I guess you get some pleasure from it, really good to do something to help others.

Hope your Chelsea Pensioner is pleased with what has been found so far.

Re the 1871 Census

Henry and Charles are down as "son in laws",


it was very common in the 19th C to use "son-in-law" (or daughter-in-law) on a census for the children born of a previous marriage of the spouse of the Head of the establishment (usually, of course, this would be children of the wife)

ie, what we would now call step-children

I've seen it used as late as the 1891 Census ................... although it was more common before about 1880 and especially in the 1850s-1870s

(some addresses in Paradise Walk appear to be missing in 1891)

http://www.howesfamilies.com/getperson.php?personID=I71290&tree=Onename


Above from google search for Paradise Walk 1891, seems another family missing also!.

Chris :)

You're right Chris, I looked for other men living in the street a couple of doors each side, and a couple further up the street according to 1891/92 ERs and none of them show up on the 1891 census.

Hi everyone,

Sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday, but I was at the Royal Hospital 'celebrating' the 100th anniversary of the outbreak of WW1. The powers that be had organised for a number of pensioners to tour around London in Edwardian cars - 50 or so in all. Prince Michael of Kent was in attendance and it was quite a spectacle. I can't imagine the total value of the vehicles on show.

Yes, Flip I'm loving volunteering. My wife also volunteers. We have both worked all our lives and now having retired we thought we'd give a little bit back.

I'm most grateful to all of you for your help and 'my' pensioner is thrilled to bits with what's been uncovered. I will report back once I've received the birth certificate.

Once again, many thanks for all your efforts.

Ron