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Hannah Marsh (b. c1829 Mansfield Nottingham) is my g-g grandmother. She married Joseph Bingham on 24 Oct 1862 (Parish of St Thomas, Brampton, Chesterfield Derby). She died 1882 (Manchester Lancs). Please help me find her parents and siblings.

My main source of records is FindMyPast.co.uk. From Derbyshire marriage records I know her father was John Marsh (school master in 1862).
From census records after her marriage I know her birth place was Mansfield, Nottinghamshire and she was born approximately 1829.

The only pre-marriage record I have found for her is the 1861 Census.
In 1861 census she is 32 and visiting Mary Read (35) who has 2 small children in Dilhorne Staffordshire. Hannah's occupation is described as "formerly lady's maid" Born Mansfield Nottinghamshire. Another visitor of similar age and also formerly lady's maid is Sarah Beddows b. 1825, Dilhorne, Staffordshire.

I can't find her in the 1851 census when she is 22. There are 18 people called Hannah Marsh born between 1828 and 1830. None of them born in Mansfield Notts.

In the 1841 census there is only one Hannah Marsh out of 7 born between 1828 and 1830 who may have been born in Nottinghamshire (recorded as not born in Devon). This Hannah is a 12 year old servant working for a Devonshire farmer, surname Harris, and staying at the property there is also a 40 yo woman called Jane Marsh (not born in Devon, no recorded occupation, last record for that household) who could be related to this Hannah.

Where should I look next to find out who the parents of my Hannah Marsh are (bearing in mind that I live in New Zealand)?
Thanks Alicia :-)

Who witnessed the marriage?

Did she give her age when she married?

Is this the Hannah you refer to? She is recorded as b 1829 and being from Mansfield but the husband is listed as Thomas not Joseph

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
32, Eastnor Street, Stretford, Barton upon Irwell, Lancashire, England

Print household transcription Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Thomas Bingham Head Married Male 48 1833 Agent For Sewing Cotton & Silk 4 Men 2 Boys Clay Cross, Derbyshire
Hannah Bingham Wife Married Female 52 1829 Agents Wife Mansfield, Nottinghamshire
George D Bingham Son Single Male 14 1867 Scholar Manchester, Lancashire
Thomas E Bingham Son Single Male 9 1872 Scholar Brooklands, Cheshire
---------------------------------------------
And the marriage you refer to?

England & Wales marriages 1837-2008 Transcription
Print individual transcription View image
Year Of Marriage 1862
First name(s) JOSEPH
Last name BINGHAM
Marriage quarter 4
Marriage year 1862
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ JOSEPH BINGHAM married one of these people
SARAH TURNER, HANNAH MARSH
Spouse's last name -
District CHESTERFIELD
County Derbyshire
Country England
Volume 7B
Page 902

Hi Alicia and welcome to the GR messages boards..


This entry for 1841 caught my eye.

John Marsh despite his age is a former schoolmaster (or at least that what it looks like) He could have been father for Hannah and she later took his name.

Hannah is correct age and in correct place.


1841 England Census
about John Marsh

Name:John Marsh
Age:81
Estimated birth year:abt 1760
Gender:Male
Civil Parish:Mansfield
Hundred:Broxtow (North Division)
County/Island:Nottinghamshire
Country:England
Street address:
Occupation:
View image
>>>>>Registration district:Mansfield
Sub-registration district:Mansfield
Neighbors:
View others on page
Piece:859
Book:4
Folio:34
Page Number:18
Household Members:
Name
Age

John Marsh 81
Mary Cowley 47
Hannah Cowley 12

Andy

England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
about Hannah Cowley

Name:Hannah Cowley
Gender:Female
Baptism Date:26 Dec 1828
Baptism Place:Mansfield,Nottingham,England
Mother: Mary Cowley
FHL Film Number:504077, 504078

Andy

latching on to Andy's find


Name: Hannah Cowley
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 26 Dec 1828
Christening Place: MANSFIELD,NOTTINGHAM,ENGLAND
Mother's Name: Mary Cowley Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C04486-1 , System Origin: England-ODM , GS Film number: 504077, 504078

Same family 1871 with husband as Joseph. He is recorded as an Agent for ------- Cotton and from Clay Cross, Derbys

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Wardle Road South Street, Sale, Altrincham, Cheshire, England

Print household transcription Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Joseph Bingham Head - Male 38 1833 - Derbyshire
Hannah Bingham Wife - Female 42 1829 - Nottinghamshire <<<Mansfield
George D Bingham Son - Male 4 1867 - Lancashire

Hi Andy
Interestiing John Marsh idea. One problem is that for this John Marsh to be at her marriage 21 years later he would have had to survive to 102. However maybe this marriage record doesn't require him to be at the wedding or even alive. What do you think?

Record set Derbyshire Marriages
First name(s) Hannah
Last name Marsh
Age Full Age
Marital status Spinster
Occupation -
Marriage year 1862
Marriage day 24
Marriage month Oct
Place Brampton St Thomas
Spouse's name (last, first) Bingham Joseph
Father's name John Marsh
Father's occupation School Master
Witnessess Charles Bingham/Ellen Hawley
Signed Signed
Residence Brampton St Thomas
County Derbyshire
Country England
Notes -

Hi Ricochet

The witnesses at the marriage were Charles Bingham and Ellen Hawley. See the marrriage record above. No age given. But her age given in censuses in 1861, 1871 and 1881 are all consistent, as is the place of birth.
Alicia

Hi Grey Ghost
Yes those records you've found are the ones I have. It's pre-1861 that's the problem. The 1881 census incorrectly gives her her husband's name as Thomas instead of Joseph.
Alicia

Hi Andy
Your suggestion is very plausible, but how would I go about testing it?
Where might I find evidence that Hannah Cowley later took the name Hannah Marsh?
Alicia

Yes, just trying to establish that I'm looking for the right person, although other folk are possibly far ahead of me!
I'm putting the following up to try and establish where Joseph was in those earlier years as I wouldn't have thought Hannah should be far away, even if a visitor in Staffs in 1861. Presume they met in the Chesterfield area as that is where Joseph appears each census and where they marry.

? Joseph Bingham in 1861. Living in Brampton just outside Chesterfield. Place of birth given as North Wingfield here, but NW and Clay Cross are next to each other on a map and all in Chesterfield RD. He is also in the right occupation to be a Cotton Agent in later census. And all close to Mansfield, just across the border in Notts.

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
South Street, Brampton, Chesterfield, Derbyshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
George Bingham Head Married Male 68 1793 Wood Turner Kettlethorpe, Lincolnshire
Susanna Bingham Wife Married Female 69 1792 Wood Turners Wife Gamston, Nottinghamshire
Joseph Bingham Son Unmarried Male 28 1833 Overlooker In A Cotton Factory North Wingfield, Derbyshire
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Same Joseph in 1851 - an assistant teacher - perhaps this is how he met Hannah if there was a teaching linkof some sort (John Marsh/Hannah Cowley)?? Or is that just co-incidence?

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Froggatts Yard, Low Pavement, Chesterfield, Derbyshire, England

Print household transcription Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship to household head Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James Wilsden Bowker Head Married Male 32 1819 Wesleyan School Master Folkestone, Kent
Eliza Bowker Wife Married Female 35 1816 - Plymouth, Devonshire
James Wilsden Bowker Son - Male 7 1844 Scholar Chesterfield, Derbyshire
Mary Ann Bowker Daughter - Female 5 1846 - Chesterfield, Derbyshire
Elizabeth Bowker Daughter - Female 4 1847 - Chesterfield, Derbyshire
Eliza Sargent Daughter - Female 1 1850 - Chesterfield, Derbyshire
Mary Ann MacDonald Lodger Unmarried Female 25 1826 Assistant Teacher Sherness, Kent
Joseph Bingham Lodger Unmarried Male 18 1833 Assistant Teacher Northwingfield, Derbyshire<<<<<<<<
Mary Abel Higginbottom Servant Unmarried Female 14 1837 House Servant Newbold, Derbyshire

Can anyone make out what it says against Hannah Cowley on the 1841 image?

Best I can do is: (Her daughter) ???? School for ??? ???

Only thing I can think of is to get the parish register checked out for the christening - the vicar sometimes mentions who the alleged father is,. but it's rarely transcribed.

Added, it does say John Marsh/Mary Cowley were not born in county, but it also states Derby which is unusual.

Her daughter Attends School for ?? ??
Not much better Flip, but think it is Attends. As for the rest?

EDIT - yes strange about naming Derbys. Have looked a couple of pages either way and no-one else has had this done (apart from a Scotland and Ireland)

The John Marsh entry on marriage cert is just fathers name and occupation. Sometimes it will state deceased, but not always.


There is probably no way of finding out if Hannah Cowley became Hannah Marsh, other than the names, place and date of birth. Judging by the Baptism record, Hannah was born out of wedlock.

Andy

I wondered if the other visitor on the 1861 census could lead to finding them together in 1851 maybe working together - but no luck. Incidently she was Sarah A Eddowes not Beddows - she died in 1884, a spinster, in Dilhorne.

I would be surprised if john marsh was actually the father of Hannah Cowley

has anyone been able to find Hannah Cowley in 1851?

I haven't, that's why I was trying to find the other visitor - hoping they worked together.

could this be a possible


1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census


First Name MARY A
Last Name COWLEY
Birth Year 1825
Age 26
Birth Place
Birth Town MANSFIELD
Birth County NOTTINGHAMSHIRE
Relationship To Head of Household
Gender Female
Occupation GENERAL SERVANT
Street
Parish MANSFIELD
City
County Nottinghamshire
Division Of County NORTH BROXTOWE
Ecclesiastical District
Enumeration District 1D
Hamlet
House Name MANSFIELD UNION
House Number
Parliamentary Borough NOTTINGHAM
Municipal Ward
Registration District MANSFIELD
Category Census, Land & Surveys
Record set 1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Collections from Great Britain
Folio 72
Page 8
Piece Number 2124
Source
Archive Reference HO107

There are 2 John Marsh death in Mansfield, both in 1848 - could be worth an e-mail to the records office they can check out the burials (it doesn't look like they make a charge) and you never know it may give another lead. Obviously back in 1848 age at death was not recorded on the BMD, so no way of knowing if either is right.

http://www.mansfield.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=189

Polly that could be an older sister?? have you found her on other census?