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Well done, some great detective work! There is a child called Evelyn Kershaw born in 1917 could Thomas and Evelyn be siblings?/

It's doubtful they are related - otherwise I think the mothers maiden name would show as Pike, not Kershaw.

True!

I'm still a bit foxed as to why Edith Pike would be called Mary Ann. It seems that she was Edith Pike possibly born with this name. She then ?marries John Kershaw in the name of Mary Pike and then becomes Mary Kershaw in 1904. ? what happens to the marriage but I know that in 1911 Thomas Francis senior becomes a widower and he and Edith Kershaw formally Pike have a son called Thomas Francis (Junior). Later there are two recorded deaths for Edith Kershaw and Mary Ann Kershaw same day possibly same person.

What happened to John Kershaw and can anyone tell what is going on?

Any further help would be appreciated.

Thank you, Vicky.

As Edith/ Mary did not marry Thomas Francis, it is likely that John Kershaw was still alive when she and thomas had their son.

There are many reasons people change their names- she may have been hiding from her first husband or perhaps just hated Edith or Mary!

Hopefully the death certificate will answer a few questions.

You can call yourself anything you want - so long as it is not for fraudulent purposes. So like Helen says, maybe she was hiding from her first husband John Kershaw - and got together with Thomas Francis. Obvioulsy they couldn't get married legimately as she was still married (although some do bigamously!)

See what the death cert brings.......

Hmm yes its all very interesting and exciting. As said Thomas junior would never discuss his past life - how sad. We think that Mina Francis his half sister helped bring him up as there was no mention of a mother or father.

I shall let you both know once the death record comes back.

Interesting you call her Mina -she was Minna May on the census - although I only found her later as Mina. Maybe something from memory? Look forward to the death cert.

Hello All,

Guess what came in the post today?!! Yes Edith's death certificate. It States -
Edith Kershaw otherwise Mary Ann Kershaw female 77 years, widow of John Kershaw a sergeant Royal marines Artillery. Signature, description and residence of informant F.T Francis Son, 17th November 1952.

So I now wonder if John died leaving Edith a widow and she then met Thomas also a widow and they then had Thomas junior?

Has anyone got access to military records at all?

How can I find out more, any ideas?

Also today, the birth certificate came for Thomas Francis senior he was born 11th November 1868 no name listed for father but mother as Emma Francis Earshaw. or Earshire? (difficult to read) Depwade, Norfolk.

Any help would be gratefully welcome - Thank you, Vicky x ;-)

Maybe? But I don't know if the correct one or what information would be on the record....

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7757180

From what I can see on the distorted image (without buying it) he was a seargent, and appears to serve till 1918. He was granted leave in April 1904 - wonder if that is when they married. Not sure but birth place is ......chester, could be Manchester.

It's Earsham, Norfolk - as on 1901/11 census, this is him with mother & grandparents:

Thomas Frances
Age:2
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1869
Relation:Grandson
Mother's name:Emma Frances
Gender:Male
Where born:Earsham, Norfolk, England
Civil Parish:Earsham
Town:Earsham
County/Island:Norfolk
Country:England
Registration district:Depwade
Sub-registration district:Harleston
ED, institution, or vessel:4
Household schedule number:63
Piece:1833
Folio:52
Page Number:13
Household Members:NameAge

Thomas Frances 50
Elizabeth Frances 50
Emma Frances 21
Thomas Frances 2
Thomas Buggs 61
Mary Godfrey 80

Brilliant - Thank you. So does this mean that Thomas and Elizabeth are the parents of Emma who has her son Thomas aged 2? no father named.

Have you noticed that the earlier spelling of Frances is now todate as Francis.

Regarding Segeant John Kershaw he did marry in 1904 which makes sense. I will look into paying for the record so we can discover more.

Thank you. :-D

Hello me again!,

I tried to complete the electrol role as you have sucessfully done above but failed. Please can you tell me how you managed it and what I need to select and place in the boxes so i can locate and print it off for my scrap book.

Thank you,

Vicky.

That's right, Emma is his mother - no father named and she was still single on the 1871 census I posted. Thomas an Elizabeth are her parents.

Thomas was still with his grandparents in 1881, but no Emma - I think she got married c1874 (but can't find my note on it at the moment).

For the military record, if you click on the link already posted you can order a download for around £3 - probably worth it as I think it might prove John Kershaw was still alive when Edith/Mary Ann gave birth in 1913.

Sorry, our posts crossed, I'll have to find it again - do you have ancestry as that's where I found it? If you don't let me know & Ill download and PM you the image.

Check your messages, 1871 & 1881 census images sent.

County Norfolk
Place Earsham
Church All Saints
RegisterNumber 241
MarriageDate * Apr 1895
GroomForename Thomas
GroomSurname FRANCIS
GroomAge
GroomParish
GroomCondition Bachelor
GroomOccupation Able Seaman "Resolution
GroomAbode Earsham
BrideForename Minna
BrideSurname FREAKES
BrideAge
BrideParish
BrideCondition Spinster
BrideOccupation
BrideAbode Earsham
GroomFatherForename Arthur
GroomFatherSurname RACKHAM
GroomFatherOccupation Farmer
BrideFatherForename Abraham
BrideFatherSurname FREAKES
BrideFatherOccupation Gardener
WitnessOneForename Abraham
WitnessOneSurname FREAKES
WitnessTwoForename Elizabeth
WitnessTwoSurname FREAKES
Notes Banns.


County Norfolk
Place Earsham
Church All Saints
RegisterNumber 163
MarriageDate 17 Oct 1874
GroomForename James Frederick
GroomSurname HIGH
GroomAge 21
GroomParish
GroomCondition Bachelor
GroomOccupation Wheelwright
GroomAbode Earsham
BrideForename Emma
BrideSurname FRANCIS
BrideAge 24
BrideParish
BrideCondition Spinster
BrideOccupation
BrideAbode Earsham
GroomFatherForename James
GroomFatherSurname HIGH
GroomFatherOccupation Wheelwright
BrideFatherForename Thomas
BrideFatherSurname FRANCIS
BrideFatherOccupation Labourer
WitnessOneForename Thomas
WitnessOneSurname FRANCIS
WitnessTwoForename Mary Ann
WitnessTwoSurname HIGH
Notes Banns. Witness 1 signs with mark. Bride signs Emma Frances.


Baptism
County Norfolk
Place Earsham
Church All Saints
RegisterNumber 785
DateOfBirth
BaptismDate 03 Aug 1851
Forename Emma
Sex F
FatherForename Thomas
MotherForename Susanna
FatherSurname FRANCIS
MotherSurname
Abode Earsham
FatherOccupation Labourer


County Norfolk
Place Earsham
Church All Saints
RegisterNumber 20
MarriageDate 28 Nov 1842
GroomForename Thomas
GroomSurname FRANCIS
GroomAge
GroomParish
GroomCondition Bachelor
GroomOccupation Labourer
GroomAbode Earsham
BrideForename Susanna
BrideSurname ALEXANDER
BrideAge
BrideParish
BrideCondition Spinster
BrideOccupation
BrideAbode Earsham
GroomFatherForename William
GroomFatherSurname FRANCIS
GroomFatherOccupation Labourer
BrideFatherForename Richard
BrideFatherSurname ALEXANDER
BrideFatherOccupation Labourer
WitnessOneForename John
WitnessOneSurname SPENTON
WitnessTwoForename Phoebe
WitnessTwoSurname SPENTON
Notes Banns. Bride & Groom & both witnesses sign with mark.


Burial
County Norfolk
Place Earsham
Church All Saints
RegisterNumber 541
BurialDate 01 Feb 1852
Forename Susanna
Relationship
Rel1MaleForename
Rel1FemaleForename
Rel1Surname
Surname FRANCIS
Age 29
Abode Earsham


County Norfolk
Place Earsham
Church All Saints
RegisterNumber 64
MarriageDate 03 Dec 1853
GroomForename Thomas
GroomSurname FRANCIS
GroomAge
GroomParish
GroomCondition Widower
GroomOccupation Labourer
GroomAbode Earsham
BrideForename Elizabeth
BrideSurname HAYLET
BrideAge
BrideParish
BrideCondition Spinster
BrideOccupation
BrideAbode Earsham
GroomFatherForename William
GroomFatherSurname FRANCIS
GroomFatherOccupation Labourer
BrideFatherForename Robert
BrideFatherSurname HAYLET
BrideFatherOccupation Labourer
WitnessOneForename Mary
WitnessOneSurname LEGOOD
WitnessTwoForename William
WitnessTwoSurname LEGOOD
Notes Banns. Bride & Groom & both witnesses sign with mark.

Chris :)

http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl

edits (also below, Emma!)

Baptism
County Norfolk
Place Earsham
Church All Saints Tr
RegisterNumber 417
DateOfBirth 03 Jun 1873
BaptismDate 22 Jun 1877
Forename Eliza Jane
FatherForename
MotherForename Emma
FatherSurname
MotherSurname FRANCIS
Abode Bungay
FatherOccupation Servant


County Norfolk
Place Earsham
Church All Saints
RegisterNumber 233
MarriageDate 02 Oct 1892
GroomForename John
GroomSurname GREENMORE
GroomAge 21
GroomParish
GroomCondition Bachelor
GroomOccupation Bricklayer
GroomAbode Bungay
BrideForename Eliza
BrideSurname FRANCES
BrideAge 19
BrideParish
BrideCondition Spinster
BrideOccupation Domestic Servant
BrideAbode Earsham
GroomFatherForename John
GroomFatherSurname GREENMORE
GroomFatherOccupation Drover
BrideFatherForename James
BrideFatherSurname HIGH
BrideFatherOccupation Wheelwright
WitnessOneForename Minna
WitnessOneSurname FREAKES
WitnessTwoForename Thomas
WitnessTwoSurname FRANCES
Notes Banns. Bride & witness 2 sign with mark. Father of Groom - John Greenmore (deceased).

Omg! Thank you al, l this is totally amazing as I couldn't find all this on my own !
It will take me a while to digest all this new information and add it to my tree.

Also I know you mentioned about Mina, well I looked at the records again and I can explain that Minnie Freakes born 1895 who married TF. They had two daughters and one was called Minna Mery Francis born 1905. So they were both Minnie, Minna, ??

I will upload the record for John Kershaw which will be hopefully interesting. It kind of feels like the puzzle is slowly unwrapping. ;-) I will let you all know what I find.

I have unloaded the military record and yes John is still in the Marines in 1914 even present 1919. It also states his mother as Alice Kershaw as next of kin.
John's DOB 17/04/1877. He started at Eastney in Portsmouth which is ironic as I am on the out skirts of Portsmouth but use to live in Eastney right next to the barracks for years.

May I ask am I reading this correct that Thomas Francis father is Arthur Rackman? as it says the grooms father. Different surnames or have I got it incorrect?

County Norfolk
Place Earsham
Church All Saints
RegisterNumber 241
MarriageDate * Apr 1895
GroomForename Thomas
GroomSurname FRANCIS
GroomAge
GroomParish
GroomCondition Bachelor
GroomOccupation Able Seaman "Resolution
GroomAbode Earsham
BrideForename Minna
BrideSurname FREAKES
BrideAge
BrideParish
BrideCondition Spinster
BrideOccupation
BrideAbode Earsham
GroomFatherForename Arthur
GroomFatherSurname RACKHAM
GroomFatherOccupation Farmer
BrideFatherForename Abraham
BrideFatherSurname FREAKES
BrideFatherOccupation Gardener
WitnessOneForename Abraham
WitnessOneSurname FREAKES
WitnessTwoForename Elizabeth
WitnessTwoSurname FREAKES
Notes Banns.

Arthur Rackham it says...(perhaps he was told name of his Father?, not concrete though!)

Chris :)

(another Marriage for Grandfather!)

County Norfolk
Place Earsham
Church All Saints
RegisterNumber 219
MarriageDate 24 Apr 1889
GroomForename Thomas
GroomSurname FRANCIS
GroomAge 66
GroomParish
GroomCondition Widower
GroomOccupation Labourer
GroomAbode Earsham
BrideForename Jemima
BrideSurname BANHAM
BrideAge 64
BrideParish
BrideCondition Widow
BrideOccupation
BrideAbode Earsham
GroomFatherForename William
GroomFatherSurname FRANCIS
GroomFatherOccupation Labourer
BrideFatherForename John
BrideFatherSurname KEMP
BrideFatherOccupation Labourer
WitnessOneForename Benjamin
WitnessOneSurname BEDWELL
WitnessTwoForename Caroline
WitnessTwoSurname SAUNDERS
Notes Banns. Bride & Groom & witness 1 sign with mark. Father of Groom - William Francis (deceased).


Births, Deaths, Marriages and Obituaries .
The Ipswich Journal (Ipswich, England), Saturday, March 10, 1883

Death
Francis 21st - at Earsham, Elizabeth Francis, wife of Thomas Francis, aged 60.


Deaths Mar 1895 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------------
Francis Thomas 76 Depwade 4b 172


Deaths Mar 1892 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------------
Francis Jemima 67 Depwade 4b 226

(possibles)