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Hello everyone,

I was wondering if anyone could possible help me please, as I am not sure where to look next and any help would be very much appreciated.

I have a Thomas Francis Francis Born in Portsmouth on 3rd May 1914 and died 2001 in Portsmouth I know he married twice to Winifred Diamond and then a Winifred Crook. ( I know this is correct) (all deceased)

I wanted to trace his parents so I sent of for his birth certificate, which I have now received by port stating -

Mother Edith Kershaw formerly known as Pike and farther Thomas Francis Rigger HM Dockyard. They lived at 27 Chalton Street Landport. From here my trail runs out any ideas please as I do not know anymore about Edith and Thomas senior.

Thank you for reading this,

Vicky. :-S

Thomas F Francis birth Reg. for info

Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
Births Jun 1914 (>99%)
FRANCIS Thomas F Pike Portsmouth 2b 910

Hello and thank you for replying.
The certificate reads
112 third May 1914 27 Chalton street, Landport
name Thomas Francis
mother Edith Kershaw formerly Pike fathers Occ Rigger HM Dockyard father Thomas Francis reg 8th June 1914
Yes he was Francis Thomas Francis but cert says Thomas francis.
But no sure where to go next?? :-(

The birth registration shown above is for Thomas F FRANCIS so the certificate should say the same.

PIKE should be the mothers maiden name but if the question was asked wrongly it could have got mixed up and be Kershaw, so could be looking for a Francis/Pike or Francis/Kershaw marriage.

Not finding either at the moment. Have had a look on the Scotland's People website just incase, but can see nothing there.

Can I go and look up a birth register and find more info and if so where?

This one looks like a Rigger at the Dockyard??

1911 England Census about Thomas Francis
Name: Thomas Francis
Age in 1911: 42
Estimated birth year: abt 1869
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Earsham, Norfolk, England
Civil Parish: Portsmouth
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England
Street address: No 32 South Brighton St, Southsea
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Riggis Dockyard ******
Registration district: Portsmouth
Registration District Number: 90
Sub-registration district: Portsmouth and Mid Southsea
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Household schedule number: 317
Piece: 5594
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Francis 42
Minnie Francis 42
Tabtiha Sara Francis 10
Minna May Francis 6
Frederick James Keable 24


Source Citation: Class: RG14; Piece: 5594; Schedule Number: 317.

Dea x

P.S. Does the cert actually say "formerly known as Pike", or just 'formerly Pike" ??

Dea x

It is a real mystery as Francis senior never spoke about his mother or father and so his only daughter alive today has asked me to research as she wishes to know more. She knows there will be skeletons which we all have! but desperate to know.

Even his father Thomas a rigger in HM Dockyard I cant find a marriage,death, birth I guess unless he went abroad??

Thank you for your reply,
certificate says:
Edith Kershaw formerly Pike.
These are the correct words.

Minnie Francis dies in 1911 which leaves the door open for Thomas to be free to remarry

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Deaths Sep 1911 (>99%)
Francis Minnie 42 Portsmouth 2b 707

That looks brilliant as Thomas is not on the 1911 as he hasn't been born yet so this would make sense! :-D

Possible that Thomas and Edith didn't marry. Her name at the time of the birth could have been Kershaw, previously Pike, but if Thomas Senior acknowledged the child as his he would have been a Francis.
Still need to find an Edith Kershaw/Pike though!!

Poor Minnie, I wonder what happened to her? :-(

Births Jun 1914

KERSHAW Thomas F Pike Portsmouth 2b 910

1891
James Keable Head Married Male 28 1863 Miller Norfolk Ditchingham
Eliza Keable Wife Married Female 27 1864 - Norfolk Denton
Frederic Keable Son - Male 6 1885 Scholar Norfolk Denton
Charles Keable Son - Male 4 1887 - Norfolk
Eleanor Keable Daughter - Female 2 1889 - Norfolk
House name Mill House
Street Mill Road
Parish Denton
Town Denton
County Norfolk
Parliamentary borough South Norfolk
Registration district Depwade
Enumeration district 3
Series RG12
Piece number 1543
Folio number 28
Page 3


County Norfolk
Place Denton
Church St Mary
RegisterNumber 168
MarriageDate 11 Apr 1887
GroomForename James
GroomSurname KEABLE
GroomAge
GroomParish
GroomCondition Bachelor
GroomOccupation Labourer
GroomAbode
BrideForename Eliza
BrideSurname FREAKS
BrideAge
BrideParish
BrideCondition Spinster
BrideOccupation
BrideAbode
GroomFatherForename William
GroomFatherSurname KEABLE
GroomFatherOccupation Labourer
BrideFatherForename Abraham
BrideFatherSurname FREAKS
BrideFatherOccupation Labourer
WitnessOneForename William
WitnessOneSurname KEABLE
WitnessTwoForename Minnie
WitnessTwoSurname FREAKS

http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl


(not sure if above relates to Frederick Keable (Nephew) on 1911, or who he relates to?)

Chris :)

Hi Choccy,
Thank you for your interesting posting, if Edith Kershaw/Pike has Thomas Francis in 1914 who is KERSHAW Thomas F Pike Portsmouth 2b 910.
The names are all good but how do they fit??? :-S

Hi Chris,

Thank you for your posting I can see there is a Minnie?? :-S

So registered as both Kershaw and Francis with mothers maiden name Pike.

? Thomas Francis Snr recognised child as his or was prepared to acknowledge as his. And was the only father Thomas Francis knew.

Mr Kershaw has died or no longer on scene. Child could have been his but born after his death. Many children born years after the death of the mothers husband, but surname given as her married name!

Marriages Jun 1895 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------------
Bolton Samuel Depwade 4b 425
Francis Thomas Depwade 4b 425
Freakes Minna Depwade 4b 425
Peck Florence May Depwade 4b 425


Baptism
County Norfolk
Place Ditchingham
Church St Mary's
RegisterNumber 492
DateOfBirth
BaptismDate 13 Aug 1865
Forename Minnie
Sex F
FatherForename Abraham
MotherForename Tabitha
FatherSurname FREAKS
MotherSurname
Abode Ditchingham
FatherOccupation Malster
Notes (At this new Church).

Chris :)

??


Deaths Dec 1930

Francis Thomas 62 Portsmouth 2b 660


Deaths Dec 1952

KERSHAW Edith 77 Portsmouth 6b 399

Thank you everyone for your help, I have managed to put a few more members on the tree and can now try to work out their children etc.

All the postings are interesting and perhaps Thomas may have been just 16 when his father died and then 41 when his mother died???

All I know is that Thomas junior was a really good, loving, family man who would not talk about any past family??