Find Ancestors

I believe Edena was an only child, daughter of Arthur Knowles and Minnie E Russ, who married Thanet 1915. Arthur died in 1916 on active service (RN):

Arthur Knowles
Age:23
Birth Date:abt 1893
Death Date:17 Jun 1916
Cemetery:Chatham Naval Memorial 1916
Burial Country:England
Mother:Ellen Knowles
Service number:J/5144
Region or Memorial:Memorial Register

What interested me, was the details attached to the record:

Drowned in English channel 17/6/1916 follow a collision. States son of Ellen of Margate and husband of Mrs W F E Boyd, formerly Knowles of 35 Tivoli Road, Margate!

It looks like Minnie E Knowles married Robert F Boyd in Devonport 1917.

Another record gives his birth as 25/5/1893, Margate, and states nok wife Minnie of 29 Marlborough Rd Margate.

So you could be onto something with that marriage :-)

Bingo:

Deaths Jun 1948 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Smith John H 52 Bournemouth 6b84

His probate:

John Henry Smith
Probate Date:19 Jun 1948
Death Date:2 Apr 1948
Death Place:Bournemouth, England
Registry:London, England

Of 8 Donnelly Road, Southbourne, Bournmouth. Probate granted to his widow Edena Marie Smith and Austin Charles Read, Accountant. Effects £7297 19s 6d.

So looks like you were right about the marriage


:-D :-D :-D :-D

Yeah, looks like the only way to find out if Edena is the new wife is the marriage certificate or a look at the electoral rolls. A couple of people on Ancestry have Edena in their trees, but no details of John.

I'd read something similar about a request for service details being related to a war injury. Didn't seem to have harmed John's career in the cold storage business up to that point...

Will let you know what I find.

Those trees on ancestry are rubbish - they have Edena, one even links her to a death in 1941, but the link is to a serviceman who died!

The electoral rolls may show if Jessie/John had children who had reached 21, because there are just too many Smith/Clarke births to know where to start.

I can place J H Smith at 8 Donnelly Road, Tuckton, Bournemouth, in the phone books from 1939 to 1948 - their phone number was Christchurch 913...... but not much use phoning it now ;-)

He wasn't in the 1938 phone book, either they didn't live there or they didn't have a phone - they weren't in the 1952 phone book, or not at that address.

Added: There was also a J H Smith, butcher, in the 1944/6 phone books at 166 Tuckton Road - so maybe he went back to his old trade, or did he have a son of the same name?? That address is a row of shops, it is now a betting shop - StanJamesUK.com

Goodness me Flip, you're a genealogy phenomenon and no mistake! Yeah, in my infinite wisdom I was completely unaware of page 2. D'oh!

Really chuffed that my Smith-Knowles theory appears to have checked out, maybe some of your intuition is rubbing off on me...?

I'm going to write all of this down and see how it all links together - it's certainly painting an interesting picture, that's for sure.

Thanks massively, if there's anything you ever need looked up in the Norwich / Norfolk area just give me a shout; I owe you one!

Thanks, but you're going to make me blush with all the compliments :-) and well done you, that marriage was a great find.

One last thing, we can't locate children without wasting loads of money on certificates so speak to someone Bournemouth archives see if they could check out the ERs from about 1938 - 39, and just after the war. Their children, if they had any, would probably be 21 during the war so may show up after the war. The only other alternative I can think of is see if John left a will - you can obtain a copy for £6 I believe.

It might be wrong, but there is a Smith/Knowles child born in Bournemouth in 1936 - don't want to post details as she may still be living, you'll find it on freebmd. I suspect she ownes two of the trees on ancestry, but there is only a few people on them and she hasn't logged on for over a year.

Thanks for those suggestions, Flip - very handy indeed. I'll follow them up and will keep you posted.

I did spot the possible Smith/Knowles child in Bournemouth - will make a note of her and will see what I can find out.

Cheers!

Look forward to the update, I love a challenge - and Smiths always prove to be that!

Good luck.

Hi Flip,

Some further developments. Firstly Jessie's death certificate came in and checks out - John's occupation was given as District manager of a COLD storage company, a perfectly reasonable job for an ex-butcher.

Secondly, Margate Cemetery replied to my request for details of possible burials. Jessie and John are indeed buried together there and the burials are in 1935 and 1948 respectively, as you guessed.

Thirdly, I Googled the name of the possible child of John and Edena and she seems to be alive and in the USA. She mentions on a genealogy page that she lived at 8 Donnelly Road as a child, so I'm going to send a speculative letter outlining my findings in the hope that she will know of any half siblings...

:-)

I'm not sure what else you've found, but that is obiously her and it would confirm she was their daughter. I'm going to send some other info by PM as the address on the genealogy page is possible out of date - there are other addresses on ancestry, and her marriage.

You are certainly on a roll with the snippets of info!

The address shown on the genealogy web page is out of date, the web page is from 2000 and that property was sold in 2003. According to the white pages they are living Argyle, Texas it gives his age as 88 so the right one.

Not sure what is available to get a current address but you seem to be very successful with your google searches.

As a certain TV detective often found, there always seems to be 'just one more thing' that helps me along. I found the potential Argyle address after a bit of Googling; guess it's well worth a try even if she can't provide much more information. As I'm sure you've found, even the scantest of details - when cross referenced - can be highly useful.

Hope you have some success and she replies - may save a fortune on incorrect birth certificates :-)

As always, I'd love to hear the eventual outcome if you don't mind. You never know the chase may be back on for children :-D

Just to say well done both Shane and Flip :-)

I have loads of Smiths Jones and Clarks!!!!! And even when you think the name is a bit more unusual the genealogy world knocks you back big time....when I started my tree I thought Hydes and Cordings would be pieces of cake - WRONG.....and then I discovered Marchant ...WRONG again. So when I got back to Llewellyn and Evans in Wales - I gave up lol!

Jude

Hi Jude thank you, it's been a joint effort with Shane finding most of the leads... & nice to see you make an appearance! Yes I remember your LLewellyn's well - and don't tell porkies you got a lot further with them than you're admitting. And I know what Smith's are like - I was one of them at birth. ;-)

Sorry Shane, this isn't helping with your thread, but Jude & I have helped each other in the past. She may be able to help with future searches as she has other sources I don't have subs for.

So keep the "snippets" coming, it's nice to have something challenging to research.

Ha ha Flip.....yes I am sure about my Llewellyns back to my gg grandfather Thomas....I have gone back another two generations with HUGE leaps of faith ha!

Shane...any help I can give I will (this thread on my radar now)...I have Ancestry worldwide and also FMP GB (courtesy of a year's free subscription from the Times to whom I subscribe!

Wills are a great source of info.....and, apart from the first one I sent for that took months to come back (and then came back in duplicate) they are quick and cheap (at £6.00)

Jude

P.S. Flip - yeah other half had almost all of July off for world cup and tour de France.....so don't get to tap away while he's sleeping ha ha!

Hey Jude (!), thanks for the message and the encouragement. Flip's dedication to going well beyond the call of duty has made the seemingly impossible look easy.

I can only applaud you both and all those in the GU community who are freely giving their time to helping others break down those brick walls. Long may it continue!!

I'll let you know how it goes - thanks!

Shane

Well, I promised an update...

This afternoon I received a phone call from John Henry Smith's daughter in the USA in response to my letter. She confirmed that John and Jessie didn't have any children together, but they did adopt a child and the name matches the one suggest by one of my father's other cousins. She's going to write with details of what her branch of the family have been doing for the last eighty years and photos of our long lost family!

Suffice to say there is no way I could have reached this happy conclusion without your help and advice (especially you Flip!) - so a big THANK YOU to you all. :-D

Thanks Shane, it's really good of you to come back and let us know. That's a great outcome, so glad we were able to help you.

You know where we are if you need anything more.

Good luck :-D