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Yes Prickly, I believe they were the right family - Esther was William's sister they were together in 1881, with father John, mother Mary but by 1891 Esther was married to Henry Alfred Holding, and not with the family. Arthur was also on the 1881 census with the family.

Alfred Joseph Rayner went to Canada with William in 1896, but must have returned as he is back with his parents in 1901 - a painter, but I can't find the incoming list. However, I think he travelled to Pennsylvania in 1905 this time his occupation was decorator - still single.

Just wish I could find Alfred's incoming record to see if William was with him!

A witness on the Raynor/Holding marriage is Mariah Elfrida Raynor.


London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Alfred Joseph Rayner Name:Alfred Joseph Rayner
Record Type:Baptism
Baptism Date:10 Jul 1868
Born: 17? Sep 1866
Father's Name:John Rayner (Painter) 1 Elizabeth Street
Mother's name:Mary Elfrida Rayner
Parish or Poor Law Union:Poplar All Saints
Borough:Tower Hamlets
Register Type:Parish Registers

On the same page with the same details...

Arthur Frederick Raynor...Born 10 June 1865

Esther Raynor....Born 7 June 1861?

Oh dear, dear!! Now we know why Wm jnr 1893 was adopted.

Henry Stanley was Canadian who William was living with 1901/1911!

Thank you

Rose

Oh dear, think your search will be moving to Canada!

William Wallis Rayner
Arrival Date:18 Aug 1896
Port of Arrival:Quebec, Canada
Ship Name:Lake Huron
Port of Departure:Liverpool, England
Residence Country:England
Age:24
Birth Date:abt 1872

Gender:Male
Race/Nationality:English
Record Type:Manifests
Line Number:3

Travelling with Alfred Joseph Rayner, 28, a painter. Both are stating they are single, Wm is a labourer. They were destined to Montreal - no relatives there.

BUT the UK address was 171 St Leonards Road, Poplar - the same address Esther gave on her marriage
:-D :-D

Yes I will get back to you Prickes and Flip.

Thanks so much

Yes, let us know - I don't think we can find Caroline without knowing her age and fathers name. Though what on earth happened to them after Williams birth is a mystery.

Do get back to us Rose when you have the certificate.

Prickles. :-)

Oh WOW ladies, you have found William Rayner's (1872) family!!

Over the moon. thank you so much for your hard work, its all fitting nicely into place.


Rose

Thanks everybody for your help. You have been fantastic. At least you have sorted Wm Wallace 1893 for me.

I will have to get the marriage certificate for William and Caroline in 1892 to see if its the right one.

Rose

William is a "letter carrier" - same family as Esther in 1881!!

William Rayner
Age:18
Estimated birth year:abt 1873
Relation:Son
Father's Name:John Rayner <<House painter

Mother's name:Mary Rayner
Gender:Male
Where born:Poplar, London, England
Civil Parish:St Leonard
Ecclesiastical parish:St Michaels
Town:Bromley
County/Island:London
Country:England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status:
View image

Registration district:Poplar
Sub-registration district:Bromley
ED, institution, or vessel:39
Neighbors:
View others on page

Piece:326
Folio:117
Page Number:7

Household Members:
Name
Age

John Rayner 60
Mary Rayner 52
John Rayner 34
Alfred Rayner 24
William Rayner 18
Edith Rayner 16
Ada Rayner 13
Florencia Rayner 10

Think this could be the uncle/aunt named as nok:

Henry Alfred Holding
Estimated birth year:abt 1858
Age:26

Spouse Name:Esther Ragner <<Rayner on original
Spouse Age:23
Record Type:Marriage
Event Date:7 Jul 1884
Parish:
Poplar All Hallows

Borough:Tower Hamlets
Father Name:William Holding
Spouse Father:John Ragner
Register Type:
Parish Register

Her father a painter, her address 171 St Leonards Road.
Witnesses Alfred Jack & Mariah Elfrida Rayner

They are living in Poplar on 1911 census

Henry A Holding
Age in 1911:54
Estimated birth year:abt 1857
Relation to Head:Head
Gender:Male
Birth Place:Poplar
Civil Parish:Poplar
County/Island:London
Country:England
Street address:
30 Nairn Street, Abbotts Rd, Bromley, Poplar

Marital Status:Married
Years Married:26
Estimated Marriage Year:1885
Occupation:PAINTER

Registration district:Poplar
Registration District Number:22
Sub-registration district:Bromley
ED, institution, or vessel:15
Piece:1692

Household Members:
Name
Age

Henry A Holding 54
Esther Holding 46 (born Gravesend, Kent)
Henry L Holding 18
Annie F Holding 24

1901 England Census
about Wm W Haymer Name:Wm W Haymer[Wm W Rayner]
Age:43
Estimated birth year:abt 1858
Relation to Head:Son-in-law
Gender:Male
Spouse:Emily J Haymer
Birth Place:Ascot, Berkshire, England
Civil Parish:Streatham
Ecclesiastical parish:Holy Trinity
County/Island:London
Country:England

Household Members:


Wm W Atkins 53
Martha Atkins 65
Emily J Haymer 33
Wm W Haymer 43
Edith L Seymour 27
Robt J Seymour 25

No wonder we have problems with the transcription errors of "Raynor"

Hi Prickles - we don't know if the one born in 1872 was the one marrying Caroline in 1892 - it could be the other one - we can't know without the marriage cert for their ages. ADDED: Sorry that was a typo where I called her Edith.

I've already checked for an employment record on the railway, but can't find one.

That's got to be him Christina, well found :-D :-D

His very brief spell in the army stated he worked on the railways!

Marriages Jun 1895 (>99%)

Fowle Emily Jane Bromley 2a 831
Rayner William Wallace Bromley 2a 831

Ah, jolly good Christina.

No wonder I couldn't spot them!

William still with the Stanleys in 1911, at least he is still with Emma (Emily in 1911) who is now a widow.

1911 England Census
Name: William Traynor.............Raynor on image
Age in 1911: 17
Estimated birth year: abt 1894
Relation to Head: Boarder
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Poplar
Civil Parish: Poplar
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 7 Bowen Street, Poplar E
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: ENGINE CLEANER N S RAIL
Registration district: Poplar
Registration District Number: 22
Sub-registration district: Bromley
ED, institution, or vessel: 24
Piece: 1701
Household Members:
Name Age
Emily Stanley 70
William Traynor 17

There is this one.......wife Emily J


1911 England Census
about William Wallace Rayner Name:William Wallace Rayner
Age in 1911:53
Estimated birth year:abt 1858
Relation to Head:Head
Gender:Male
Birth Place:Halstead, Essex
Civil Parish:Low Leyton
County/Island:Essex
Country:England
Street address:115 Boundary Road, Walthamstow
Marital Status:Married
Occupation:Carpenter
Registration district:West Ham

Household Members:

William Wallace Rayner 53
Emily J Rayner 43
Maria H Best 73 (Mother)
Susanah L Best 33 (Half Sister)
Doris G Best 13 (Neice)
William W Best 3 (Nephew)
Laura Best 6/12 (Neice)

Married 16 years........No children

Flip.....If this William Wallace was born c1858 it would have made him 15 when William Wallace Rayner was born (1872 Poplar)!!!

Must be from another family?

Rose

Flip.....If this William Wallace was born c1858 it would have made him 15 when William Wallace Rayner was born (1872 Poplar)!!!

Must be from another family?

Rose