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I think that's what everybody's been trying to find out!

There is already some information on possible children for Samuel/ Elizabeth- on this thread- although you will need to buy the birth certificates to confirm.

We're having difficulty seeing Samuel or his children on the 1901- so can't fix a time on Elizabeth's death- but you can search on http://www.freebmd.org.uk/

I think it's likely that Sam's mother, Rebecca died in 1861 as per the info given to you by Chris Ho earlier. I also think it's likely that Isaac died before 1861- as Samuel is living with his brother (listed as nephew) in 1861 and although the place of birth is out, this is a possible for his sister Abigail in 1861 in the Jews Orphan Asylum in St. Mark's Street:

Name: Abigail Rodrigues
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: 1849
Relation: Orphan Inmate (Orphan)
Gender: Female
Where born: Woolwich, Kent, England
Civil Parish: Whitechapel
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark
County/Island: Middlesex
Registration district: Whitechapel
Sub-registration district: Goodmans Fields
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Household schedule number: 149
Piece: 273 Folio: 121 Page Number: 24

On Abigail's marriage cert in 1869 her father was listed deceased.

Austin has posted the 1881 census where Samuel has been mistranscibed as Manuel.

I have posted the 1891 census showing Samuel and Elizabeth with their children, George, Isaac, Hassa (looks like that on the image, male) and daughter Esther. I have also posted Esther's birth and probable marriages for sons George and Isaac.

A tree on Ancestry has this listed for Isaac's death:

" 21 Oct 1857
Mile End, London, England

Information found on jgsgb.org.uk origin Bevis Marks Synagogue records"

Maybe but birth year is a year out?

Elizabeth Rogers
Estimated birth year: abt 1852
Registration Year: 1900
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 48
Registration district: Pancras
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1b
Page: 97

I can't thank you all enough for all your help and advise
I had all but given up.The problem that kept cropping up was I couldn't find Sam
With his father Isaac.I had his birth as abt 1866.
The people that have just found that it was 1854.

This makes such a difference now Isaac is coming up everywhere.
I just don't where to look and you all find it straight away.

Many Thanks Sam

(no idea folks, but wondered if below caused any confusion anywhere (other Trees) Father named as Isaac Rogers, occ. Horse Dealer. Joseph, Full Age, Bachelor, occ. Hackney Carriage Driver, Residence At Time for both as White St.)

Chris :)

Marriages Jun 1871 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------------------
Frenchman Esther Bethnal Green 1c 495
ROGERS Joseph Bethnal Green 1c 495

(will add apologies, not wanting to confuse things!)


(reference to JewishGen)

RODRIGUES, Isaac
1857
Joseph (Spouse/Father/Mother)
Novo (New) Cemetery
Bevis Marks Records Part VI Serial No: 7031


Deaths Dec 1857 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------
Rogers Isaac Mile End 1c 397

I am not with Ancestry because of the difference in birthdays I had 1866 now it is with
the help of Genes helpers 1854.
Ancestry had a DNA on offer so I have sent mine if as I was told Jewish was in my family and the DNA proves it everything that has been sent to me is true..

Then it will answer a whole lot of questions.
I have tried for so long.
Sam :-D

Glad we have been able to carry you forward (or backwards) a bit further.

Hope all the info helps but when you have managed to 'digest' it all do come back on here, on to this thread, and tell us what further help you need.

Very best wishes and good luck in your research,

Dea Xxx

Dear Friends,
I have been trying to find Elizabeth and Sam Rogers death
I sent. for Minnie's death certificate my gran ,Sam's second wife
and it was right because my dad was on it.

I also sent for Sam s because everyone said he died in 1931
and that he was born in 1866.I always had doubts because it says he was a ex
docker and it didn't fit seeing all his family were with horses.

Also his wife Minnie nor my dad Sam was with him.when he died.
Since you all found that he was born abt1854 none of it makes sense..

I want to send for death certificates but need to get it right.
Hope you can help Sam.

Do you have this?

Elizabeth Howard

in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
Record Image View

Name: Elizabeth Howard
Estimated birth year: abt 1852
Age: 23
Spouse: Samuel Rodgers
Spouse Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 3 Feb 1875
Parish: St Bartholomew, Bethnal Green
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Thomas Howard
Spouse Father: Isaac Rodgers
Register Type: Parish Register

Samuel a bachelor, carman, Isaac a horse dealer.

Yes I do have this she is not on the 1901 census so I have been looking
from1892 onwards.Still can,' pinpoint her death also Sam

I have just received the DNA results I sent for .I sent for them because all I had was England.My granddad Sam was a mystery on his marriage to Minnie he was born 1866.and his father was Isaac.
Nobody could connect the two so I left it.

Imagine my surprise when my friends at Genes came up with Sam born 1854
and all the info just flooded in.Jewish, Rodregues, I was shocked I was told that Sam was jewish but I had no proof.

My DNA said Jewish, and Iberian Peninsula,also a trace of Europe West.
So thanks to everyone at Genes it looks like I finally have answers .

Can anyone tell me when Sam died the death certificate I bought 3 years said he died in 1931 and that he was 67 and was a docker.
His whole family were involved with horses and if he was born in 1854 the age is wrong.also my gran nor my dad were with him.

It doesn't make sense
Please give me the last piece of the jigsaw.
Thank You Sam

I have just received the DNA results I sent for .I sent for them because all I had was England.My granddad Sam was a mystery on his marriage to Minnie he was born 1866.and his father was Isaac.
Nobody could connect the two so I left it.

Imagine my surprise when my friends at Genes came up with Sam born 1854
and all the info just flooded in.Jewish, Rodregues, I was shocked I was told that Sam was jewish but I had no proof.

My DNA said Jewish, and Iberian Peninsula,also a trace of Europe West.
So thanks to everyone at Genes it looks like I finally have answers .

Can anyone tell me when Sam died the death certificate I bought 3 years said he died in 1931 and that he was 67 and was a docker.
His whole family were involved with horses and if he was born in 1854 the age is wrong.also my gran nor my dad were with him.

It doesn't make sense
Please give me the last piece of the jigsaw.
Thank You Sam

Bumped up for Samuel.................

Responding to this because of the other thread you started today - now deleted as suggested - looking for Sam's death.

So , thinking aloud, and probably not coming up with any answer:

He was in Manchester in 1911, and Minnie died in Salford in 1935 - does her death cert say she was a widow at that time?.
It would be reasonable to assume that they were in Manchester/Salford between those dates, and that Sam died in that area too.

[EDIT: do you have any knowledge of him being alive at any time between those dates? ]

But maybe he died somewhere else.

Even if he was actually born in 1854, his YOB is given as 1863 at his marriage to Minnie in 1905, and as 1866 in the 1911 census.
So, if that's what he'd told Minnie was when he was born, and was also therefore what his son thought, then that's probably what was given on his death record.

You say neither your gran nor your dad are mentioned on the 1931 death cert. What's the actual wording on it, please?
Is it possible that a docker could have been moving cargo by horse-drawn vehicle??

As I said - just thoughts, and probably not useful.

Just a long shot - I can't remember if this is one you'd already discounted?

Deaths Sep 1912 (>99%)
ROGERS Samuel 44 Salford 8d 50

Age not quite right even if he had been born 1863-66, but maybe ??


Or alternatively, maybe the below with name spelled wrongly ??

Deaths Jun 1919 (>99%)
Rodgers Samuel 53 Barton upon Irwell 8c 617

Samuel Rogers

England and Wales Death Registration Index 1837-2007

Name Samuel Rogers
Event Type Death
Registration Quarter Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Year 1923
Registration District Bethnal Green
County London
Event Place Bethnal Green, London, England
Age (available after 1866) 69
Birth Year (Estimated) 1854
Volume 1C
Page 131
Line Number 75

Samuel Rogers

England and Wales Birth Registration Index

Name Samuel Rogers
Event Type Birth Registration
Registration Quarter Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration Year 1854
Registration District East London
County London
Event Place East London, London, England
Volume 1C
Page 22
Line Number 37

Thank you for your help.I don't know what happened I lost the threads.
I was asked what it had on Sam's death certificate 1931 which since the help if my friends at Genes the certificate makes less sense.It says Eighth of April 1931 35 Tintern st Salford.age 67: Labourer on Docks Natural Causes no pm.By this it looks like he was on his own. My gran Minnie was alive she died March 1935 in Salford and my dad was present at her death.That's why Sam's certificate doesn' t make since.

The 1915'certicate I sent for he was a cabinet maker and his wife was Emily
This one I dismissed right away.
Hope this helps Sam

Already asked, but not answered -
does Minnie's death cert say if she was a widow?