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I'm only going by what Christopher said...............

Reggie, or he left her - we can find Bertha after 1911 but not George.

I wonder why only Thomas has Chewter included in his birth reg? Bertha signs that as Chewter.

You've already told us that one of Bertha's children changed his surname...............what's to say that others didn't?

Especially as Bertha left her husband................

Christopher, they may never have seen their birth certs. Birth certs cost money and although births had to be registered, the parents did not need to buy a cert. Proving your identity was not so important then.

If Lilian had hers, why would she not have put her father's name on her marriage cert?

And that presumes that these children were actually in possession of their birth certs............which I doubt.

hi potty
both lilian may and Thomas George knew who their dad was its on their birth certs

chris

I wan't 1000% sure that the George in the workhouse in 1911, was the right George - his occupation is given as stoker on a steamship, but on Thomas's and Lilian May's birth certs it is given as farm labourer, but on Lilian's BC she was born at 250 Elm Grove, which is the address of the workhouse for George in 1911. George was the informant and gives that address where he signs as informant but under the father's details he gives a different address - 74 Mount Pleasant, Brighton.

The Elm Grove address is given as where Thomas George was born and where Bertha is living; George's address is given as 42 Hollingdean Rd, Brighton.

Lilian doesn't give a father's name on her marriage cert so possibly did not know it and may be Thomas didn't either so made up a name for the marriage to Doris.

Images of these certs are on family trees on Ancestry.

Possible:-

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about Lilian May Berryman
Name: Lilian May Berryman
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1910
Registration district: Brighton
Inferred County: Sussex
Volume: 2b
Page: 173

............................

England & Wales, Marriage Index, 1916-2005 about Lilian M Berryman
Name: Lilian M Berryman
Spouse Surname: Earl
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1939
Registration district: Surrey North Eastern
Inferred County: Surrey
Volume Number: 2a
Page Number: 573
Find Spouse: Leonard S Earl

.........................................

England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007 about Lilian May Earl
Name: Lilian May Earl
Birth Date: 25 Feb 1910
Date of Registration: Apr 1995
Age at Death: 85
Registration district: Richmond Upon Thames
Inferred County: Surrey
Register Number: 26A
District and Subdistrict: 2481
Entry Number: 158


So also lived to a good age!

Just wanted to see what happened to the children from 1911:-

Possible:-

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about Edgar Frederick Berryman
Name: Edgar Frederick Berryman
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1908
Registration district: Steyning
Inferred County: Sussex
Volume: 2b
Page: 265

.....................
England & Wales, Marriage Index, 1916-2005 about Edgar F Berryman
Name: Edgar F Berryman
Spouse Surname: Hibberd
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1936
Registration district: Chichester
Inferred County: Sussex
Volume Number: 2b
Page Number: 1125
Find Spouse: Winifred Hibberd

......................................

England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007 about Edgar Frederick Berryman
Name: Edgar Frederick Berryman
Birth Date: 15 May 1908
Date of Registration: Dec 1994
Age at Death: 86
Registration district: Chichester
Inferred County: Sussex
Register Number: A39B
District and Subdistrict: 7792A
Entry Number: 140


86 when he died, so didn't do too badly!

Also, which confirms my 1911 census, the tree has parents for Bertha as:-

John James Phillips
1852 – 1914

Eliza Potter
1849 – 1915

A tree on ancestry has this family and the child who died (re 1911 census) is noted as:-

Alfred George Berryman
Birth 1907 in Sussex, United Kingdom
Death 1907 in Sussex, United Kingdom


I was wondering if Bertha maybe had post natal depression?
After all, 3 children in as many years, one of which died is a lot to handle for anyone?

Thomas George Berryman's birth was also registered under the name of Chewter:-

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about Thomas G Chewter
Name: Thomas G Chewter
Mother's Maiden Name: Phillips
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1912
Registration district: Brighton
Inferred County: Sussex
Volume: 2b
Page: 336

They didn't always differentiate Reggie but having looked at the images it seems that this Workhouse did and so they appear not to be in the hospital part.

As you say, it is very sad that the in-laws could not make room for the husband, or at the very least the children.

Dea Xxx

Just to clarify where the Chewter name comes into things:-

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about George Chewter
Name: George Chewter
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1882
Registration district: Uckfield
Inferred County: Sussex
Volume: 2b
Page: 130
...........................................................................

1891 England Census about George Berryman
Name: George Berryman
Age: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1883
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas Berryman
Mother's name: Anne Berryman
Gender: Male
Where born: Uckfield, Sussex, England
Civil Parish: Little Horsted
Ecclesiastical parish: Little Horsted
Town: Little Horsted
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: Uckfield
Sub-registration district: Isfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 785
Folio: 66
Page Number: 3
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Berryman 45
Anne Berryman 31
Ellen Berryman 3
George Berryman 8
Ernest Berryman 2

..................................................................

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915 about Thomas Berryman
Name: Thomas Berryman
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1893
Registration district: Uckfield
Inferred County: Sussex
Volume Number: 2b
Page Number: 171
Records on Page:
Name
Thomas Berryman
Annie Chater
Annie Chuter


Marriage is after the birth of George, so George looks to be the illegitimate son of Annie Chuter/Chewter

Wouldn't the census enumerator, in that case, have described then as 'patients'?

In those days the Workhouses were often also hospitals - It is of course possible that the husband and children were in the Infirmary part of the workhouse at the time of the 1911 ??

Dea x

Suggest you get a copy of the 1961 death cert...........it seems the most likely to be relevant

............there is only ONE birth for the name in 1912

You say the death record is wrong................why do you say that?

Thanks Catherine

How sad - cruel even -that her parents could take her in, but leave her children in the workhouse..........!

hi

I have the marriage cert of Thomas George berryman he married doris evans 1954 31 july
on his fathers name it his William George and not George berryman.
there his a William George berryman who in 1952.
if you look look at my tree its shepherd /berryman and also shepherd
my father took the shepherd surname and not the berryman because my grandmother had left George her husband between 1912 and 1926.

mr Christopher shepherd

The tree on Ancestry has an image of the birth cert of Thomas George Berryman, b1912 Brighton. The father is named as Thomas George Chewter otherwise Berryman; the mother is Bertha Mabel Chewter otherwise Berryman MN Phillips.

The tree also has three further siblings, one with the surname Berrymand b1921 (with image of birth cert) but no father's name. The other two have the surname Shepherd.

Christopher, have you seen the marriage cert to Doris? Is that where the father is named as William?

Edit: I think that is your tree on Ancestry, Christopher.