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Thought this may be Sarah in 1851?

1851 England Census about Sarah Camfield
Name: Sarah Camfield
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1830
Relation: Inmate
Gender: Female
Where born: Mayfield, Sussex, England
Civil Parish: Tonbridge
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation: Servant (but this has been crossed out)

Registration district: Tunbridge
Sub-registration district: Tunbridge
ED, institution, or vessel: Tonbridge Union Workhouse

Looks as though she was in the workhouse to give birth to an illegitimate daughter as she is with a child just named Camfield 3 wks old.

EDIT:- Only 2 births for Can/mfield in 1851 Tonbridge and one is a male child, so this one looks as though it may be the child of Sarah?

Births Mar 1851 (>99%)
Camfield Mary Ann Tonbridge 5 596

.............if this is the daughter, then she may have died?

Deaths Mar 1853 (>99%)
Camfield Mary Ann Tunbridge 2a 252

There is a Sarah born 1829 in 1841 living in Tonbridge which may be the Sarah in 1851 census:-


1841 England Census about Sarah Camfield
Name: Sarah Camfield
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1829
Gender: Female
Where born: Kent, England
Civil Parish: Tonbridge
Hundred: Tonbridge Lowey
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Street address:

Registration district: Tonbridge
Sub-registration district: Tonbridge Wells
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 463
Book: 10
Folio: 27
Page Number: 13
Household Members:
Name Age
John Camfield 39
Sarah Camfield 12
Mary Ann Camfield 10
Lucy Camfield 8

..................but she is noted as being born in Kent and ancestry links her to a marriage to a William Crittenden so 1841 looks as though may be incorrect.

1851 however, I'm not sure as date and place of birth looks to be correct?

???


England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973 about Robert Camfield
Name: Robert Camfield
Gender: Male
Age: 22
Birth Date: 1829
Marriage Date: 27 Aug 1851
Marriage Place: Newhaven,Sussex,England
Spouse: Sarah Simmons
FHL Film Number: 1067272




1851 England Census about Sarah Simmonds
Name: Sarah Simmonds
Age: 19
Estimated birth year: abt 1832
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Female
Where born: Seaford, Sussex, England

Civil Parish: Newhaven
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View image

Registration district: Lewes
Sub-registration district: Ditchling
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 148
Piece: 1643
Folio: 740
Page Number: 33
Household Members:
Name Age
William Campell 50
Mary Campell 56
William Campell 19
Rheuben Campell 13
Frances Campell 7
Caroline Campell 1
>>>Sarah Simmonds 19


and this is the fmp version.



1851 census transcription details for: Newhaven Union House, Newhaven
Print Close

National Archive Reference:
RG number: HO107
Piece: 1643
Folio: 740
Page: 33
Reg. District: Lewes
Sub District: Newhaven
Parish: Newhaven
Enum. District: 6
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Newhaven Union House, Newhaven
County: Sussex
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
CAMFIELD, William Head Married M 50 1801 Ag Lab
Piddinghoe, Sussex
CAMFIELD, Mary Wife Married F 46 1805 Ag Lab's Wife
Brighton, Sussex
CAMFIELD, William Son Unmarried M 19 1832 Ag Lab
Newhaven, Sussex
CAMFIELD, Rhenbin Son Unmarried M 13 1838 Ag Lab
Newhaven, Sussex
CAMFIELD, Frances Daughter F 7 1844 Scholar
Newhaven, Sussex
CAMFIELD, Caroline Daughter F 1 1850 Home
Newhaven, Sussex
>>>SWINSWOOD, Sarah Visitor Unmarried F 19 1832 Servant Visitor
Seaford, Sussex


and then after marriage to William Haines.


1861 England Census about Sarah Haines
Name: Sarah Haines
Age: 28
Estimated birth year: 1833
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William Haines
Gender: Female
Where born: Denford, Sussex, England
[Seaford, Sussex, England]

Civil Parish: Plumstead
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image

Registration district: Lewisham
Sub-registration district: Plumstead
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 76
Piece: 408
Folio: 98
Page Number: 13
Household Members:
Name Age
William Haines 33
Sarah Haines 28
William G Haines 4


and fmp version


1861 census transcription details for: 22, Elm Street, Plumstead
Print Close

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG09
Piece: 408
Folio: 98
Page: 13
Reg. District: Lewisham
Sub District: 1 Plumstead
Parish: Plumstead
Enum. District: 5
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 22, Elm Street, Plumstead
County: London, Kent
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
HAIMES, William Head Married M 33 1828 Labourer Rl Arsenal
Linthurst, Kent
HAIMES, Sarah Wife Married F 28 1833
Conford, Devon
HAIMES, William G Son M 0 (4M) 1861
Woolwich, Kent


The marriages in question.


Marriages Dec 1867 (>99%)
CANFIELD Sarah Lewes 2b 342 Scan available - click to view
Haines William Lewes 2b 342 Scan available - click to view
NOVIS Mary Ann Lewes 2b 342 Scan available - click to view
Weaver Samuel Lewes 2b 342


EDIT Just realised the marriage is too late for the 1861 census. Drat!!

Robert with his family (same family as above 1851)

1841 census transcription details for: High Street, Newhaven
Print Close

National Archive Reference:
RG number: HO107
Piece: 1112
Book/Folio: 5/22
Page: 7
Reg. District: Lewes Chailey West Firle & Newhaven
Sub District: Newhaven
Parish: Newhaven
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: High Street, Newhaven
County: Sussex
Name Relation Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
CANFIELD, William M 35 1806 Sussex
CANFIELD, Mary F 35 1806 Sussex
CANFIELD, Lucy F 15 1826 Sussex
>>CANFIELD, Robert M 12 1829 Sussex
CANFIELD, William M 10 1831 Sussex
CANFIELD, Mary F 8 1833 Sussex
CANFIELD, Reuben M 3 1838 Sussex
GIBBS, Lucy F 70 1771 Sussex

OK It was a good theory but this appears to be Robert, alive and kicking in 1861.


1861 England Census about Robert Campfield
Name: Robert Campfield
[Robert Canfield]
Age: 31
Estimated birth year: 1830
Relation: Married
Gender: Male
Where born: Newhaven, Surrey, England
[Newhaven, Sussex, England]

Civil Parish: Vessels
Town: Newhaven
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image

Registration district: Lewes
Sub-registration district: Newhaven
ED, institution, or vessel: Rover
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 1
Piece: 589
Folio: 82
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Campfield 31


They had a child who is with his grandparents from 1861 onwards, not with his mother.



England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 about Robert Henry Canfield
Name: Robert Henry Canfield
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 1856
Baptism Place: , Newhaven, Sussex, England
Father: Robert Canfield
Mother: Sarah
FHL Film Number: 1067272
Reference ID: - 2:14Z3N7L



1861 England Census about Alice Simmons
Name: Alice Simmons
Age: 13
Estimated birth year: 1848
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William Simmons
Mother's name: Harriet Simmons
Gender: Female
Where born: Seaford, Sussex, England

Civil Parish: Seaford
Town: Seaford
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image

Registration district: Eastbourne
Sub-registration district: Eastbourne
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 50
Piece: 567
Folio: 196
Page Number: 10
Household Members:
Name Age
William Simmons 53
Harriet Simmons 54
Alice Simmons 13
William Simmons 12
Robert Henry Campfield 4

Wonder if this is Sarah in 1861 she is not on the 1871. 1861 says born Rotherfield Sussex which is about 3.5 miles from Mayfield. Emma, the visitor, was born Mayfield


Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation
Disability Where born Image
CAMFIELD, George Head Married M 51 1810 Agricultural Labourer
Rotherfield, Sussex VIEW
CAMFIELD, Elizth Wife Married F 40 1821
Rotherfield, Sussex VIEW
CAMFIELD, Sarah Daughter Unmarried F 16 1845
Rotherfield, Sussex VIEW
CAMFIELD, Josh Son Unmarried M 12 1849 Agricultural Labourer
Rotherfield, Sussex VIEW
CAMFIELD, Elizth Daughter Unmarried F 9 1852
Rotherfield, Sussex VIEW
CAMFIELD, Thomas Son Unmarried M 1 1860
Rotherfield, Sussex VIEW
JAMESON, Emma Visitor Unmarried F 23 1838 Domestic Servant
Mayfield, Sussex VIEW Piece: 574 Folio: 52 Page: 11 Registration District: Uckfield Civil Parish: Rotherfield Municipal Borough: Address: Crowborough Cross,

We really need Rosemary to come back to let us know if she has the 1867 marriage certificate or not.
That will at least tell us who married who so we know if we are going in the right direction with any of this.

following this with interest.
I think maybe catherine is in OZ, so she will reply late.
You are doing a great job

Thank you so much for all your work - I didn't know how much info to put into this but you have uncovered my other BIG mystery - Samuel Weaver Snr.

I thought I would sort out Samuel Jnr first and then try and unravel Samuel Senior's birth and death. I've been working on these two for probably about a year and just haven't been able to get anywhere.

Sarah Canfield is another one I haven't been able to document properly either.

I did find a Samuel Weaver born in 1838 in Waldron Sussex and had followed him through Census 1841, 1861, found a birth record born in the correct year and in Uckfield BUT as I found a death record for him dated 1862 decided that he couldn't be Samuel Junior's father. I discounted this family as not being related to me.

Once again thank you all for your help.

Rosemary Simeon

Once again thank you all so much for all your work, I am really grateful !

Yes I am in Australia, first generation Oz, my father emigrated too (separately).

The family Bible I have was connected to the Weavers. Unfortunately they were not particularly literate (or my grandmother wasn't). The entries are very untidy and all over the place. I'll quote the ones about George and Sarah :

"Mrs Sarah Simmons died on the 3 February age 64 years 1902
Mr Simmons age 85/18 September 1901"

I don't have the marriage certificates for the marriages of Samuel and Sarah or Sarah and George Simmons but I certainly will get them now. But given the entries in the family bible I was pretty sure that I was on the right track.

I have been particularly confused by the short amount of time elapsing between the birth of Samuel Jnr and the marriage of Sarah to George. My thought was that perhaps Samuel Snr died before the baby was born?

Rosemary Simeon

I'm just trying to answer all the questions and I'm finding I'm missing a few, sorry!

On the 1903 Marriage Certificate of Samuel Weaver Jnr and Isabella Newell, there is just a dash in the father's name and surname column.

I seem to have slipped up finding Sarah Weaver in the 1871 Census, as just looking through my records I don't seem to have any from this period. :-(

Rosemary

A dash in the column where the father's name and occupation should be usually (but not always) means that the person is illegitimate. Perhaps he was born after Samuel snr. had been dead for quite a while and so was given his mother's surname at the time (which would still have been Weaver) and then she married Mr. Simmons shortly afterwards.

Kath. x

Kath THANK YOU ! I think you have hit on the right answer.

The Weaver family I had discounted because the Samuel Weaver died in 1862 is still unfortunately not viable as Sarah and Samuel married in 1867 [sigh]

Would Samuel Junior's birth not be registered because he was illegitimate?

Rosemary

Thanks to Kath's suggestion I had a sudden brainwave that perhaps dear Samuel's birth was registered as Samuel Simmons as Sarah married George Simmons soon after the birth and the 1881 Census shows Samuel as Samuel Simmons, son.

I did a quick search and found a Samuel Joseph Simmons born 1878 in Eastbourne, Sussex and better still it is in the 2 event quarter which is correct for the 20 April birth date in the bible.

Do you think I might be on the right track?

Rosemary

Another brainwave on the basis of the first ;-) Would Sarah and George have changed Samuel's surname to Weaver because it is obvious that he was born before the marriage?

George Simmons' first wife Harriet died in 1877 and eldest son was described in one census record I found, as being mentally deficient "Jack of all Trades".

Rosemary

Name: Sarah Weaver
[Sarah Hossman]
Spouse: George Simmons
Marriage: 17 Jun 1880 - Mayfield, Sussex, England
Name:
Sarah Weaver
[Sarah Hossman]

Gender:
Female

Marriage Date:
17 Jun 1880

Marriage Place:
Mayfield, Sussex, England

Father:
Joseph Hossman

Spouse:
George Simmons

FHL Film Number:
1067250

Dorothy, thank you for the information but I can't find any record of this marriage or anything at all about Sarah Hossman.

Rosemary

I may not be able to be online for some while as there is a thunderstorm coming in - don't want to get my electrics fried :-(

Rosemary

The info that Sarah's father's name was Hossman ( or a variant thereof) rules out completely the possibility that the 1867 marriage has any relevance whatsoever

What led you to think it was in any way connected to your enquiry?

Why did you think that the father of the child born in 1878 was called Samuel?

No father's name on the 1903 marriage cert meant that the child was illegitimate.

Suggestion ONLY.............must be verified

Marriages Jun 1866 (>99%)
Hosmer Sarah Uckfield 2b 168
Martin Henry Uckfield 2b 168
Noakes Emma Uckfield 2b 168
WEAVER Thomas Uckfield 2b 168

1871 seems to show that Emma married MARTIN

1871 census


Person: MARTIN, Emma Address: Curtain's Hill, Buxted
Cost


MARTIN, Henry Head M 36 1835 Sussex VIEW
MARTIN, Emma Wife F 29 1842 Sussex VIEW
MARTIN, William Son M 3 1868 Sussex VIEW
MARTIN, Henry Son M 0 1871 Sussex

???????

Births Jun 1842 (>99%)

Hosmen Sarah Uckfield 7 486
Hosmer Sarah Uckfield 7 486
Hosmer Sarah Uckfield 7 480