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My great(x2) grandparents were William Steel & Ann Kenny. They were married in 1878 when Ann was 26, and her father is stated as John Kenny, bricklayer (deceased). However, I can find no record of her in the Censuses before her marriage, apart from a baby Ann Kenny in the 1851 Census, living with her mother Julia Kenny, who is listed as being unmarried. There are older siblings for this particular Ann: John, Catharine & "Patrey". In 1881 & 1891 my DEFINITE Ann's birthplace is listed as London. Help would be greatly appreciated.

For our reference - ? your family. It would have helped if you had posted this or a definite find initially
1851 census transcription details for: 2, Bell Alley, Saint Giles Cripplegate, London

National Archive Reference:
RG number: HO107
Piece: 1525
Folio: 266
Page: 20
Reg. District: East London
Sub District: Cripplegate
Parish: Saint Giles Cripplegate
Enum. District: 1G
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough: London
Address: 2, Bell Alley, Saint Giles Cripplegate, London
County: Middlesex
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
KENNY, Julia Head Unmarried F 26 1825 Cap Maker Cripplegate
KENNY, John Son M 9 1842 Scholar Cripplegate
KENNY, Catharine Daughter F 7 1844 Scholar Cripplegate
KENNY, Patrey Son M 3 1848 Cripplegate
KENNY, Ann Daughter F 0 (9 MOS) 1851 Cripplegate
STANKARD, Ann Lodger Unmarried F 64 1787 Chair Woman Mile End
HICKMAN, Ann Lodger Widow F 66 1785 Tailoress Waltham Abbey, Essex

A possibility that Julia married and perhaps the children can be found on census under the step fathers name?

Civil Registration event: Marriage

Name: KENNY, Julia
Registration district: Marylebone
County: London
Year of registration: 1852
Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Spouse's last name: Not available before 1912
Volume no: 1A
Page no: 801
MarriageFinder: Julia Kenny married one of the following people:

BALL, Samuel
KILLROY, Michael
KILROY, Michael
RICHARDSON, Elizabeth
Transcriptions

EDIT - No, not the right Julia - Ancestry shows the certificate and she is recorded as a Minor (marriage is to Michael Killroy)

Can you post either the 1881 or 1891 census that is definitely "your" Ann Steel? This will help identify the correct family.

The fact that a father is named on her marriage certificate as "deceased" could mean that she was illegitimate and made up a deceased father to save face with the in-laws.

Kath. x

I assume this is her in 1881. In 1881 and 1891 she is referred to as Annie, but Ann in 1901

Name: Annie Steel
Age: 29
Estimated birth year: abt 1852
Relationship to Head: Wife
Spouse: William Steel
Gender: Female
Where born: London, London, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St Luke Old St
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 5 Middle Row
Marital Status: Married
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Seamstress
Registration district: Holborn
Sub-registration district: Whitecross Street
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 366
Folio: 43
Page Number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
William Steel 38
Annie Steel 29
William Payne 8 nephew
Rose Gearing 24

Is this William and Ann in 1881:


Annie Steel
Age:29
Estimated birth year:abt 1852
Relationship to Head:Wife
Spouse:William Steel
Where born:London, London, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish:St Luke Old St
County/Island:London
Occupation:Seamstress

William Steel 38 b Southwark, St Georges
Annie Steel 29
William Payne 8 - nephew, b Hoxton
Rose Gearing 24

posting this just in case, father John kenny

1851
KENNY, John Head Married M 34 1817 Cooper
Ireland VIEW
KENNY, Ann Wife Married F 28 1823
Ireland VIEW
KENNY, Mary Daughter Unmarried F 5 1846
St George East, Middlesex VIEW
KENNY, Thomas Son Unmarried M 3 1848
Whitechapel, Middlesex VIEW
KENNY, Ann Daughter Unmarried F 0 (6 MOS) 1851
St George East, Middlesex VIEW

Piece: 1547

Folio: 465

Page: 9

Registration District: Saint George in the East

Civil Parish: Saint George in the East

Municipal Borough: The Tower Hamlets

Address: 19, Everard Street, Saint George In The East, The Tower Hamlets

County: Middlesex

These may be relevant to 1851 cenus (ages fit with those of John and Catherine)?

Name: John Mooney
Gender: Male

Christening Date: 04 May 1842
Christening Place: ST BOTOLPH BISHOPSGATE,LONDON,LONDON,ENGLAND

Birth Date: 28 Apr 1842
Father's Name: Walter Mooney
Mother's Name: Julia Kenny
Parents address: Workhouse

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C00161-8
System Origin: England-ODM
GS Film number: 380145, 380146

........................................

Name: Catherine Mooney
Gender: Male
Date of Birth: 7 Feb 1844
Christening Date: 14 Feb 1844
Christening Place: ST BOTOLPH BISHOPSGATE,LONDON,LONDON,ENGLAND

Father's Name: Walter Mooney
Mother's Name: Julia Kenny

Address of parents: Workhouse

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C00161-9
System Origin: England-ODM
GS Film number: 380146

......................................................................

Also this:-

Name: Julia Kenny
Event Type: Death
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration Year: 1868
Registration District: Shoreditch
County: London
Event Place: Shoreditch, London, England
Age (available after 1866): 44
Birth Year (Estimated): 1824
Volume: 1C
Page: 145
Line Number: 231

There is this one in 1871

Name: Annie Kenny
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1856
Gender: Female
Where born: St Georges; Pimplico
Civil Parish: St James Clerkenwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Holborn
Sub-registration district: Amwell
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Household schedule number: 1
Piece: 386
Folio: 51
Page Number: 1
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Bradshaw 31
William Cook 21
Charles Howard 20
Edward Barber 16
Thomas Butler 19
Walter Goodman 22
Samuel Leicester 17
Charles Brisley 18
James With 19
Mary Kenny 55 widow, housekeeper
Annie Kenny 15
Julia Mara 22


The image does appear to be 15 for Annie and she has no occupation. i was hoping that she might have been older on a badly written image

Catherine's marriage has the same details for Father John....


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Catherine Kenny .....Res: Denmask ??? Court.
Estimated birth year:abt 1844
Age:20
Spouse Name:William Payne (Blacksmith)
Spouse Age:22
Record Type:Marriage
Event Date:19 Jun 1864
Parish:St Giles without Cripplegate
Borough:City of London
Father Name:John Kenny (Bricklayer)
Spouse Father:James Payne (Silversmith)
Register Type:Parish Register
Witnesses: Denis or Doris ? McCarthy and Mary Ann Dunn

As Mother Julia was unmarried in the 1851 census.......Father John Kenny Bricklayer was possibly a made up name anyway.

Note that there is a nephew William Payne with William and Annie on the 1881 census.

The same couple in 1881 - but the marriage gives John's occupation as Bricklayer:

John Kenny

Age:64
Estimated birth year:abt 1817
Relationship to Head:Head
Spouse:Ann Kenny
Where born:Cork, Ireland
Street address:66 Fern St

Journeyman Cooper

John Kenny 64
Ann Kenny 59 b Cork

What is the address for Ann on the marriage cert and who were the witnesses?

Marriages Sep 1878 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------
KENNY Ann Shoreditch 1c 361
STEEL William Shoreditch 1c 361

(witnesses to Marriage, any clue?)

Chris :)

(snap PH!)

edits (Rose from 1881 below, not relevant, but Bricklayer connection!)

1871
GEARING, Charlotte Wife F 42 1829 Oxfordshire
GEARING, Rosanna Daughter F 14 1857 Kent
Piece: 420
Folio: 13
Page: 26
Registration District: London City
Civil Parish: St Botolph
Municipal Borough: London
Address: Shaftesbury Place, St Botolph, London
County: London, Middlesex

1871 (Husband of Charlotte)
GEARING, Thomas Lodger M 47 1824 Oxfordshire (Brick Layer)
GEARING, Benjamin Lodger M 17 1854 London (Brick Layer)
Piece: 1297
Folio: 118
Page: 33
Registration District: Windsor
Civil Parish: Egham
Municipal Borough:
Address: Sand Pitt Church Road St Jude, Egham
County: Berkshire

1861
GEARING, Thomas Head Married M 38 1823 Bricklayer Journeyman
Watlington, Oxfordshire
GEARING, Charlotte Wife Married F 36 1825
Pyrton, Oxfordshire
GEARING, Benjamin Son M 7 1854 Scholar
London Cripplegate
GEARING, Roseanna Daughter F 4 1857 Scholar
Sandhurst, Berkshire
BUTCHER, Sarah Mother In Law Widow F 86 1775 Almswoman
Blind ..., Oxfordshire
Piece: 884
Folio: 33
Page: 36
Registration District: Henley
Civil Parish: Watlington
Municipal Borough: Watlington
Address: Church Street, Watlington
County: Oxfordshire


1861 (other witness, 3, Crown Court as abode given for William 1864)
MCCARTHY, Dennis 31 1830 ...
MCCARTHY, Mary ... ... F 27 1834 ...
MCCARTHY, Henry Son Unmarried M 8 1853 Scholar
Cripplegate, ...
MCCARTHY, Frederick Son Unmarried M 5 1856 Scholar
Cripplegate, ...
MCCARTHY, William Son Unmarried M 1 1860 Scholar
Piece: 224
Folio: 77
Page: 9
Registration District: London City
Civil Parish: Holy Trinity the Less
Municipal Borough: London
Address: 4, Crown Court, Holy Trinity The Less, London
County: London

Looking for John Kenny

1851 census transcription details for: 2, Church Lane, Saint Giles???s In The Fields, Finsbury

National Archive Reference:
RG number: HO107
Piece: 1509
Folio: 101
Page: 11
Reg. District: St Giles in the Fields & St George Bloomsbury
Sub District: North Saint Giles's in the Fields
Parish: Saint Giles???s in the Fields
Enum. District: 4
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough: Finsbury
Address: 2, Church Lane, Saint Giles???s In The Fields, Finsbury
County: Middlesex
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
HENDRICK, John Lodger Unmarried M 36 1815 Bricklayer's Labourer
Ireland
FOX, Peter Lodger Married M 23 1828 Bricklayer's Labourer
Ireland
FOX, Mary Wife Married F 24 1827 Charwoman
Ireland
>>KENNY, John Lodger Unmarried M 29 1822 Bricklayer's Labourer
Ireland
NORFOLK, James Lodger Unmarried M 20 1831 Bricklayer's Labourer
Norfolk
NORTON, John Lodger Unmarried M 26 1825 Bricklayer's Labourer
Ireland

Is this just a coincidence....

???


1861 England Census
about Julia Kenny Name:Julia Kenny
Age:37
Estimated birth year:1824
Relation:Wife
Spouse's Name:John Kenny
Gender:Female
Where born:Ireland
Civil Parish:Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish:All Saints
Town:Liverpool
County/Island:Lancashire
Country:England

Registration district:Liverpool
Sub-registration district:St Martin
ED, institution, or vessel:4

Household Members:

John Kenny 46 (Basket Hawker)
Julia Kenny 37
Catherine Kenny 14
Patrick Kenny 11
Thomas Kenny 7
Winnifred Kenny 7
Julia Kenny 4

All born Ireland except children Thomas, Winnifred and Julia...born Liverpool Lancashire.

Res: 4 Court, Grosvenor Street.

???

Liverpool, England, Catholic Baptisms, 1802-1906
about Winefrid Kenny Name:Winefrid Kenny
Birth Date:21 Oct 1853
Baptism Date:23 Oct 1853
Parish:St Joseph's, Lancashire, England
Father's Name:John Kenny
Mother's name:Julia Brogan

On the same page.....


Liverpool, England, Catholic Baptisms, 1802-1906
about Thomas Kenny Name:Thomas Kenny
Birth Date:21 Oct 1853
Baptism Date:23 Oct 1853
Parish:St Joseph's, Lancashire, England
Father's Name:John Kenny
Mother's name:Johanna Brogan

.No forget that!

1851 England Census
about Patrick Kenny Name:Patrick Kenny
Age:1
Estimated birth year:abt 1850
Relation:Son
Father's Name:John Kenny
Mother's name:Julia Kenny Gender:
Male
Where born:Ireland
Civil Parish:Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish:All Saints
County/Island:Lancashire
Country:England Registration district:Liverpool
Sub-registration district:St Martin


John Kenny 40 (Hardware Seller)
Julia Kenny 21
Catherine Kenny 4
Patrick Kenny 1
Patrick Roche 16
Lodgers...
Margaret Roche 20
Bridget Flynn 45

Hello Jacqueline and welcome to the Community Boards.





I will let Jacqueline know that she has replies to her query. :-)

Many thanks, just seen all these replies, a lot to read. Just to reply to some: Yes, potty, that's "my" Ann/Annie in the 1881 Census. PricklyHolly & Chris Ho: re Ann Kenny's marriage to William Steel, 17 Sep 1878, Shoreditch, 1c 361: witnesses are R Clay & Rose Gearing. Address for both William Steel & Ann Kenny at time of marriage: 24 Essex Street, Shoreditch

Thanks Jacqueline.

Oh for heaven's sake! I just looked at the 1911 Census and found the Catherine Payne (nee Kenny) & William Payne I've been researching--Catherine being Ann's sister. However, living with them is a Louisa Hunt, William's sister-in-law ("wife's sister") and she is unmarried! Catherine did not have a sister Louisa! Oh my...