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Does anyone have any info about Elizabeth Agnes Richards (1883)
I Know she married Jonas Butcher, but stuck on her parents,
Glynis

You don't give a place - so is this Elizabeth's birth reg?

Births Dec 1883 (>99%)
Richards Elizabeth Agnes West Ham 4a 92a

You will need to get her marriage cert to find her father's name. Or do you have it and there is no father's name given?

She married as Elizabeth:

Marriages Dec 1913 (>99%)
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Butcher Jonas Richards W Ham 4a 755 Scan available - click to view
Richards Elizabeth Butcher W.Ham 4a 755

Glynis, how did you get back to Elizabeth? The only Butcher/Richards births are in Llanelly.

??
1911 census transcription details for: 7 Rochester Road Carshalton

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National Archive Reference:
RG14PN2927 RG78PN101 RD31 SD1 ED5 SN307
Reg. District: Epsom
Sub District: Carshalton
Parish: Carshalton
Enum. District: 5
Address: 7 Rochester Road Carshalton
County: Surrey
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
BUTCHER, Jonas Head Married
9 years M 34 1877 General Labourer Witham Rivnall
BUTCHER, Elizabeth Wife Married F 28 1883 Plaistow Essex
BUTCHER, Thurza Daughter F 6 1905 Waltham Cross Essex
BUTCHER, William Son M 8 1903 Plaistow Essex
© brightsoli

1891 census transcription details for: 2, Watson Street, West Ham

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National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG12
Piece: 1327
Folio: 143
Page: 44
Reg. District: West Ham
Sub District: West Ham
Parish: West Ham
Enum. District: 47
Ecclesiastical District: St Marys
City/Municipal Borough: West Ham
Address: 2, Watson Street, West Ham
County: Essex
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
RICHARD, George W Head Married M 50 1841 Engineer
St Helens, London
RICHARD, Henry Son M 14 1877 Scholar
Plaistow, Essex
RICHARD, Ada Daughter F 9 1882
Plaistow, Essex
RICHARD, Elizabeth Daughter F 7 1884
Plaistow, Essex
RICHARD, Agnes Daughter F 2 1889
Plaistow, Essex

Astra, have you found a marriage for the couple in the 1911?

George Richards wife in 1891. But i think he had been married before.

1891 census transcription details for: Kings College Hospital, Portugal Street Lincolns Inn Fields

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National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG12
Piece: 217
Folio: 181
Page: 9
Reg. District: Strand
Sub District: St Clement Danes
Parish: St Clement Danes
Enum. District: 14
Ecclesiastical District: St Clement Danes
City/Municipal Borough: Strand
Address: St Clement Danes, Westminster, Strand
County: London
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
RICHARDS, Margaret Patient Married F 36 1855 Laundress
Forest Gate, Essex

Marriage is posted above in 1913.

Jonas POB seems to be Rivenhall (from previous censuses) and his parents Charles and Thirza. They have a Richards grandson in the 1911, so I think it is Elizabeth who had previously been married:


1911 England Census
William Ross Richards
Age in 1911:8
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1903
Relation to Head:Grand Son
Birth Place:Plaistow, Essex, England
Civil Parish:Edmonton
County/Island:Middlesex
Country:England
Street Address:42 Chamberlain Road, Lower Edmonton

Charles Allen Butcher 60
Thirza Butcher 56
William Ross Richards 8
Walter Orpen 42
Mary Kitchener 65
Fred Barnes 14
Edith Merchant 38
Gladys Lilywhite 5

others shown as lodgers or visitors.


Jonas shown as single in 1901

Jonas was still single in 1901
1901 England Census about Jonas Butcher
Name: Jonas Butcher
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Father: Chas Butcher
Mother: Thurza Butcher
Birth Place: Rivenhall, Essex, England
Civil Parish: West Ham
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Chas Butcher 50
Thurza Butcher 45
Edith Butcher 26
Margt Butcher 25
John Butcher 22
Jonas Butcher 20
Ethel M Butcher 19
Walter Walker 34
Eliza Armstron 21
David Alston 14

age is out but this is him on the 1891 census same parenst


1891 England Census about Jonas Butcher
Name: Jonas Butcher
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Charles A Butcher
Mother's Name: Thirza Butcher
Gender: Male
Where born: Rivenhall, Essex, England
Civil Parish: Wennington
Ecclesiastical parish: Wennington
Town: Wennington
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View Image
Registration District: Romford
Sub-registration District: Hornchurch
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1374
Folio: 41
Page Number: 8
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles A Butcher 40
Thirza Butcher 36
Edith Butcher 18
Margaret A Butcher 16
Jonas Butcher 15
John H Butcher 12
Ethel M Butcher 10
Elizabeth Marchell 20
William Stocker 15

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 1374; Folio: 41; Page: 8; GSU Roll: 6096484.


so seems they told porkies about being married on the 1911 census

There is a birth for William Ross Richards in Dec 1902 West Ham but doesn't seem to be one for William Butcher. Are the two Williams in the 1911 the same boy?

Need some feedback from Glynis.

Name: William Ross Richards
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1902
Registration District: West Ham
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 4a
Page: 66

Have you located Thurza,s birth cos am going around in circles looking for her

Looks good Reggie but they must have told porkies on her birth cert implying they were married.

Wonder what their marital status was on the marriage cert. Maybethough they just didnt marry till later

Butcher Thirza
Burial date 03 June 1912
London Borough of Newham
West Ham Cemetery (Newham)

(on below, if relating)

https://www.deceasedonline.com/servlet/GSDOSearch


Deaths Jun 1912 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------
Butcher Thirza 53 Edmonton 3a 514

Chris :)

Hello Glynis and welcome to the Community boards.






note: I will let Glynis know that she has replies to her query :-)

Thanks to everyone who sent me info on the Richards family,
I am an old lady, awaiting for my sons help on this, New to me.
Glynis

PM recd


Thirza was born in June 1852 in Rivenhall. I have details on her but I am stuck on the Richards family. I have Elizabeth A Richards bith cert.
It says her dad was George William Richards And her mum was Margaret Burns.
The only marriage with these names I can find, says that they were 40 years old when they married, that means margaret was 68 approx when she had Elizabeth, this is where I am stuck,

How sure are you that the birth certs you got is the right one?

Does she name her father on the marrige cert ?

Name: Jonas Butcher
Spouse Surname: Richards
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1913
Registration District: West Ham
Inferred County: Essex
Volume Number: 4a
Page Number: 755
Records on Page:
Name
Jonas Butcher

Elizabeth Richards

above already posted I know but added agian to refer to


Is this the birth cert you got ?

Name: RICHARDS, Elizabeth Agnes
Registration district: West Ham
County: Essex
Year of registration: 1883
Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume no: 4A
Page no: 92A

does her dads name cross check with the marriage cert ?