Find Ancestors

Either one seems possible Jude.

Moving back to Lily and George Hurst I find:

Lily Esther Hurst. B.14 Jan 1919 as death registered in Maidstone Kent. Sep 1988
George Stanley D Hurst. B.19 Jul 1906 as died Ipswich Suffolk in March 1979

Both good matches.

There is also a son. Peter C. Hurst registered born West Ham 1929

2nd September fits with the gro for December 1883. Two options for wives between 1911 census and death.....assuming married in Walthamstow

Marriages Mar 1912 (>99%)
Martin George Lewis W.Ham 4a 394 Scan available - click to view
Marriages Sep 1912 (>99%)
Martin George Haynes W.Ham 4a 464 Scan available - click to view

Ellen Lewis, Lillian Haynes - two children to Martin/Haynes marriage Lillian R and Violet M

One more item:

Commonwealth war graves notice says:

Killed in Action by submarine in North Sea on 22nd September 1914. Age 31.
Son of Mr and Mrs W Martin of 15 Seaford Road, Tottenham.

That was indeed his father’s address from at least 1911 until the 1920s
So that completely confirms it as him.

Name on Chatham War Graves Memorial

Jude,

Seems as though Charles and Frances lived at 71 Gosport Road with his brother George as a boarder - assume Lily and her husband also lived there with them.

Just a couple of small points regarding George. Firstly, the DoB given on his Baptism record is 2nd September 1883 (he was baptised on Sept 28th). His navy death notice states born January. Also referes to NoK as Wife at that address though I dont think he ever married. Maybe simple mistakes but the other evidence is pretty overwhwelming.

Again, thanks for all your help - much appreciated.

Patchem,

You are correct that I made an assumption of him driving a train and I've now also come round to the idea of him operating a machine.

Jude,

Agree this is indeed looking more and more to be Charles, with George also linked to that address adding to the case. 71 Gosport Road is now extremely convincing. I think this is QED!

Many thanks. :-)

sadly this looks like being George - note the address of nok

Name: George Martin
Rank: Sto 1st
Birth Date: 2 Jan 1883
Birth Place: Hoxton, London
Branch of Service: Royal Navy
Cause of Death: Killed or died as a direct result of enemy action
Official Number Port Division: S.S.102123. (R.F.R.Ch. B.7258.) (Ch)
Death Date: 22 Sep 1914
Ship or Unit: HMS Aboukir
Location of Grave: Not recorded
Name and Address of Cemetery: Body Not Recovered For Burial
Relatives Notified and Address: Wife: 71, Gosport Road, WalthumstowE

I'd wager this being his death

Name: Charles J Martin
Birth Date: abt 1880
Date of Registration: Mar 1969
Age at Death: 89
Registration District: Redbridge
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 5d
Page: 773

Alive in 1964 - same address as George and Lily E Hurst

Name: Charles J Martin
Year: 1964
County or Borough: Walthamstow
Ward or Division/Constituency: West Division
Street Address: 71 Gosport Road
Reference Number: LCC/PER/B/2968

and 1965

Name: George S Hurst
Year: 1965
County or Borough: Walthamstow
Ward or Division/Constituency: West Division
Street Address: 71 Gosport Road
Reference Number: LCC/PER/B/3074

Image shows he is there too

Stephen,

You have put above:
'I'm a bit dubious about Charles being an engine driver as he was just a labourer, then a stoker at the waterworks into his 30s!'

You are making assumptions that 'engine driver' would have referred to someone who worked on the railways.

Copied over from rootschat:
'My great grandfather was always recorded as engine driver at the water works - but I suspect that the engine he "drove" did not move along any rails. (I think he was too fond of the bottle to be in charge of an engine that actually went anywhere with passengers on board ::) ) I think that today we might call such people "machine operators"

It's on Ancestry - doesn't say a lot more than I have typed out

Jude

Typos arem my speciality Jude. Will check out that probate (If I can)
:-)

Typo I hope..1879 :-)


The occupation is on the probate image :-)

Jude,

Just found Charles DoB tucked on the end of his Baptism:
Born 10th February 1879 (now corrected)
:-)

Jude,

Dont have Charles' Actrual DoB yet but Frances was 5th June 1881 and I've come across the same births and deaths for her as you have.

I'm a bit dubious about Charles being an engine driver as he was just a labourer, then a stoker at the waterworks into his 30s!

Been looking at Martin births registered at West Ham with the mother's name of Day - found seven more so far from 1912 to 1922 - nice and evenly spaced!

Pauline, Stephen's George is single in 1911 so cannot be the same as your George Henry who married Alice Bonney in 1898. And Stephen's George is the son of William and Emma

Hi Stephen
My Grandfather was George Henry Martin from Bermondsey B 1882. 13th January)
I was unable to find him on the 1901 Census. I found his wife Alice (nee Bonney) and two eldest daughters I am wondering if he is brother on your census?
My Great Grandfather was also George,, married Mary Ann Bourne and my father was Charles George , as the eldest son also George died, so my Dad was given it as a second name., being the next son born, He had a brother called Henry Francis
so many names the same? I know very little about the Martin family,

Do you know Charles ACTUAL DOB?

There's this death

Name: Charles John Martin
Birth Date: 25 Oct 1879
Date of Registration: Sep 1975
Age at Death: 95
Registration District: North Bucks
Inferred County: Buckinghamshire
Volume: 19
Page: 1004

Name: Frances Rosetta Martin
Probate Date: 20 Sep 1960
Death Date: 13 Jul 1960
Death Place: London, England
Registry: London, England

Frances Rosetta 71 Gosport Road London wife of Charles John Martin retired engine driver died 13 July 1960 Whipps Cross Hospital

Jude

There is a private tree on Ancestry with her in - you could try contacting the owner

Jude

OK...likely birth

Name: Frances Rosetta Day
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1881
Registration District: Lambeth
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 322

baptism

Name: Frances Rosetta Day
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 3 Jul 1881
Father's Name: Henry Day
Mother's Name: Mary Ann Day
Parish or Poor Law Union: Lambeth St John the Evangelist
Borough: Lambeth
Register Type: Parish Registers

but not a marriage in sight :-(