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Good Morning

Today I have decided to 'pin down' Charles Wilson (really want to be able to get his parents marriage and the birth will give me MMN). I struggled this morning on FreeBMD but after coffee kicked in I think this is him

Births Mar 1860 (>99%)

WILSON Charles W. Ham 4a 27

because I have him:

1861 at Friendly Street, born West Ham, Essex aged 1
1871 at Friendly Place, born Essex aged 11
1881 at Ely Terrace Mile End (shown as James - his brother!) born Plaistow, Essex - (or it is James with Charles' DOB)
1891at Ely Terrace, Mile End born Canning Town, Essex
1901 at Fellowes Road, Mile End born Canning Town
1911 at Hockley Street Hackney he gives up and says he is born in Mile End.

As the Charles Wilson above (W. Ham 4a 27) fits the West Ham/Plaistow/Essex details and the year is fairly consistent (1860) across most Census records - can anyone else see anything/anyone else that I should consider before I order it please?

Thank you

J-A

So who is he living with on the census,s ?

If you think that's his birth then the cert will give his parent/s

Name: Charles Wilson
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John Wilson
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Wilson
Gender: Male
Where born: West Ham, Essex, England
Civil Parish: West Ham
Ecclesiastical parish: West Ham
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View Image
Registration District: West Ham
Sub-registration District: West Ham
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 355
Piece: 1057
Folio: 152
Page Number: 57
Household Members:
Name Age
John Wilson 44
Elizabeth Wilson 43
George Wilson 11
Martha Wilson 8
James Wilson 6
Charles Wilson 1

Source Citation: Class: RG 9; Piece: 1057; Folio: 152; Page: 57; GSU roll: 542744.


Have you looked on FreeBMD for a marriage pre 1850 ie before the birth of George aged 11

The birth registration you have looks good to me.

I can't see any other Charles Wilson on the 1861 census, born 1860 in West Ham. Nor can I see a death for the baby.

Hello Shirley~

On the earlier ones he lives with his parents John (1816 ish) and Elizabeth (1821 ish) and siblings, the later one he lives with his own family. I am fairly confident that is the one I need but as 'Charles' and ' Wilson' is a common combination - and I have had a couple 'not found' responses from GRO recently I am going to take a chance and order with the reference

I am working on marriages in my tree at the moment and his is one of the last where a birth cert will give me his mother's maiden name. I didn't search for a marriage as his parent are from different areas (Essex and Middlesex/Essex) and his first sibling born somewhere else (Staffordshire!) EDIT: might not be his first sibling as possibly sister Sarah on 1851 from Shirley~

J-A

ChristinaS

Thank you - it is just that sometimes I feel I can't see the wood for the trees!

J-A

Wonder if this is them
1851 census

Name: John Wilson
Age: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1817
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Wilson
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Hertfordshire, England
Civil Parish: West Ham
Ecclesiastical parish: Plaistow St Mary
Town: New Plaistow
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View Image
Registration District: West Ham
Sub-registration District: West Ham
ED, institution, or vessel: 1n
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 91
Piece: 1768
Folio: 588
Page Number: 25
Household Members:
Name Age
John Wilson 34
Elizabeth Wilson 33 b Enfield middlesex
Sarah Wilson 7 b hertfirdshire
George Wilson 1
Frederick Wilson 24
Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1768; Folio: 588; Page: 25; GSU roll: 207414.

As sarah was born in Herts then its likely they married in Herts

Edit crossed with your posting of 9.49am

Shirley~

That is one I have and suspect it is the parents before Charles' birth.

Edit: just looked at your question re looking for a marriage before the birth of George (there is also the probable daughter on the 1851 born 1844) - I did have a look on FreeBMD but wasn't sure about any of them! Mind I did have coffee after that!

Just for info
Name: James Wilson and Charles Wilson
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 31 Jan 1864
Christening Place: SAINT PETERS,STEPNEY,LONDON,ENGLAND
Birth Date: 20 May 1855 and Charles 14 Jan 1860
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: John Wilson
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C04268-1
System Origin: England-ODM
GS Film number: 579646

If I go for Hertfordshire - there are 5 possibles: John WIlson to an Elizabeth:

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Mar 1841 (>99%)
WILSON John Edmonton 3 45
Marriages Sep 1845 (>99%)
WILSON John Berkhampstead 6 613
Marriages Mar 1848 (>99%)
WILSON John Royston 6 687
Marriages Jun 1848 (>99%)
WILSON John Royston 6 749
Marriages Dec 1848 (>99%)
Wilson John Hemel Hempstead 6 935

If I go for Middlesex, there are about 30 - including this one

Marriages Mar 1841 (>99%)
WILSON John Edmonton 3 45

Which also appears on the Hertfordshire search! Perhaps that is the marriage - to an Elizabeth Cakebread

J-A

Shirley~ just seen your note re Sarah - crossed with mine 10:14

Alemap - Thank you for those baptisms, must be them.

According to the London marriages - the 1841 marriage in Enfield was John Wilson (a policeman) marrying Sarah Green.

EDIT - I should have put Edmonton, not Enfield

Thank you, so not mine then by the look of it.

I have just searched all Member Trees and come up with 6 Elizabeth Cakebreads - thought I was going to get a connection across both sides of my ancestors as one of the trees is with a member I have contacted before.

A possible for 1841

WATSON, James M 50 1791 Hertfordshire
WATSON, Sarah F 50 1791 Hertfordshire
PHIPP, Ann F 3 1838 Hertfordshire
>>>WILSON, John M 25 1816 Cabinet maker
>>>WILSON, Elizabeth F 20 1821
Piece: 434 Book/Folio: 2/8 Page: 11 Registration District: Bishops Stortford Civil Parish: Bishops Stortford Municipal Borough: Address: Apton Field, Bishops Stortford County: Hertfordshire

Alemap

Thank you, yes certainly a possible and I can look for a marriage 1837 to 1841 and see if that turns anything up.

EDIT - nothing jumping out. Only the Edmonton one again. Might just order the birth and see what I get for MMN

????

if 1861 census right that shirley posted this might be martha wilson

Births Dec 1852 (>99%)
Wilson Martha Anne West Ham 4a 15

There's just too many possibilities here. It looks like you're going to have to order that birth certificate - as you suggested this morning. Good luck. :-)

That's it - West Ham Charles Wilson's birth certificate has been ordered. Just hoping now that it will be with father John Wilson (carpenter or similar) and Elizabeth someone!

safc - yes that could be her from 1861 - just feeling sorry for her as both her brothers are shown as scholar -and she isn't.

I also wondered if the 1841 posted by Alemap with James and Sarah Watson might be Elizabeth's parents but not found a marriage Wilson to Watson so best way to go is the birth cert. Due for despatch on 29th August.

Thanks all for your suggestions and help, will update when it arrives.

J-A

John Wilson, "England and Wales Census, 1871"
Name: John Wilson
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1871
Gender: Male
Age: 54
Relationship to Head of Household: Self
Birthplace: Nazeing, Essex
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: Mile End Old Town
Sub-District: Mile End Old Town Eastern
Parish:
County: London, Middlesex
Household Gender Age Birthplace
Self John Wilson M 54 Nazeing, Essex
Wife Elizabeth Wilson F 53 Enfield, Middlesex
Son George ? Wilson M 21 Litchfield, Staffordshire
Daughter Martha Wilson F 18 Plaistow, Essex
Son James Wilson M 15 Plaistow, Essex
Son Charles Wilson M 11 Plaistow, Essex


Staffordshire Birth indexes for the years: 1849
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
WILSON George Lichfield (held at Newcastle RO) Newcastle-Under-Lyme L/10/207

Hi safc

Thank you. I think that is them too - I've noticed that John (father) has born Hertfordshire in 1851, but Essex 1861, 1871, 1881 and 1891. Might just check how close Nazeing is to Hertfordshire - might be on the border.

Thanks too for that birth reg for George

edited to delete duplicate of this post and ADDED: Seems Nazeing is quite close to Hertfordshire (county), so perhaps he was born close/near the border!