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Thank you! I shall take a look at lunchtime :-)

I don't know why they would both have been in West Ham, but there's this: (from fmp)

Transcription page details
Surname:Woodruff
Forenames:Eliza
Year of Marriage:1819
Month of Marriage:NOV
Day of Marriage:29
Spouse surname:Richardson
Spouse forenames:Timothy
Place:West Ham
County:Essex

I think this one looks like a possibility, as William's middle name was Woodruff. Taken from familysearch

Eliza Woodriff
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

christening: 5 May 1797 Chatham, Kent, England
father:William Woodriff
mother:Mary

I think the 1812 marriage to Elizabeth Colegate is probably too early.
Also with this marriage on 22nd November 1812, there's a James Richardson marrying a Jane Paris.

Following the 1861 census records for William Richardson and for his son William with grandparents Timothy and Eliza:

Timothy Richardson:
occupation - cabinet maker
1861 census at 18, Devonshire Street, Stepney
1851 census at 23, Hayfield Place, Mile End Old Town
1841 census at Assembly Row, Stepney, Mile End Old Town
married Eliza Colegate 22/11/1812 at St Mary's in Chatham, Kent
baptised 28/01/1796 at Christ Church in Tynemouth, Northumberland

Eliza Colegate:
baptised possibly 19/11/1797 at Eythorn, Kent, England, because the year matches census records, but Eythorn is a long way from Chatham.

Children (via familysearch.org):
Elizabeth 1813
Maryan 1816
Maria 1823
my William Woodruff 1831

These are big gaps. Could be diseases; perhaps Timothy went abroad; perhaps I'm barking up the wrong family tree. The first two fit well with the marriage date of 1812, but not so much the second two.

Hi Gideon,

Just stick to this thread,please!

I DO think you've got the correct parents for your William. I wasn't sure until I spotted them with grandson William in 1861:
1861 England Census about William Richardson
Name: William Richardson
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Relation: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: London, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Stepney
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Registration District: Mile End Old Town
Sub-registration District: Mile End Old Town Eastern
ED, institution, or vessel: 37
Household Schedule Number: 117
Piece: 298
Folio: 45
Page Number: 17
Household Members:
Name Age
Timothy Richardson 66
Eliza Richardson 64
William Richardson 7
Source Citation: Class: RG 9; Piece: 298; Folio: 45; Page: 17
....................
This is your William in 1861-even though it doesn't look like them!!!
1861 England Census about William Richarson
Name: William Richarson
Age: 39
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1822
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elisa Richarson
Gender: Male
Where born: Bethnal Green
Civil Parish: Bethnal Green
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Registration District: Bethnal Green
Sub-registration District: Church
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 60
Piece: 258
Folio: 36
Page Number: 10
Household Members:
Name Age
William Richarson 39
Elisa Richarson 30
Elisa Richarson 5
Henry Richarson 3
James Richarson 1
Source Citation: Class: RG 9; Piece: 258; Folio: 36; Page: 10


Maureen

I've sent Gideon the images of the 1871 via PM,

Christina,if I recall,I think I kept typing your name as ChristinaD or something and had to edit it a few times. Was so proud when I finally got it right. :-) :-)

Maureen

I've just tried, and I can't find William Richardson in 1871 on FindMyPast either. They seem to have left that whole side of the street out. How frustrating.

MaureeninNY posted the census on 27th June. Probably taken from Ancestry.


Question to Maureen - why have I been multi-exclamation-marked on your last post?

Hi ChristinaS,
I can't find William of Stepney/Shoreditch in the 1871 census via FindMyPast - the reference above is not found (piece 464 folio 36 page 15)

The 1881 census has this one:
RICHARDSON, Will
Head of 11, Flemming St, Shoreditch
Widower
M
age 48
b.c.1833 in Shoreditch, Middlesex
Cabinet Maker

Thanks for confirming that Maureen. Nice to know it's not just me :-)

So, Gideon, yes there are two William Richardson's who were cabinet makers. Just to make things confusing for you.

In 1871 your William b.c. 1832 in Stepney, was living in Shoreditch with his wife, Celia, and son James - 11 years old.

In 1871 the other William Richardson b.c.1821 in Rickmansworth, was living in Mile End Old Town with his wife, Elizabeth, and son James - 14 years old.

I wonder if they knew each other.

HA!!!!!!!
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

Perfect work on your part.
...........................
Another darned edit:
ChristinaS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Maureen

That's a very interesting take on it! I'll look into these Richardson Fletchers :)

Birth cert: James Frederick Richardson's father was William Richardson, Cabinet Maker

Marriage cert: James Fletcher Richardson's father was also a William Richardson, Cabinet Maker..

Off to find out how many of those there were...

Gideon, I've joined this thread a bit late, but having read through it and seen all the information that MaureeninNY and the others managed to find for you .... Would you like my take on this, because it difers from yours?

Below is another Richardson Fletcher birth, which ties in with being your James' sister. It seems that the other children, William, Henry and Edward were all registered with the name Fletcher.

I would say they were all the children of William Richardson and Celia Fletcher.

It seems that Celia married Peter Tooley in 1850, but left him. She then moved in with William Richardson, but they weren't able to marry, as Celia was still married to Peter Tooley.

Therefore, all the children were registered under Celia's maiden name of Fletcher. Although they were known by the name of Richardson.

I would guess that Celia put her name as Eliza on the 1861 census because she was afraid of being found by Peter Tooley.

This is your James' family, but is NOT the same family as the William and Elizabeth (nee Smith) who had the James Frederick Richardson.

I hope I've understood this correctly.



England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915

Name: Eliza Richardson Fletcher
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1855
Registration District: Bethnal Green
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1c
Page: 228

MaureeninNY - I hope this is the same conclusion you came to after all your work, and that I haven't gone off track. Apologies if I have.

Certificates just arived!

James Frederick was son of WIlliam & Elizabeth (Smith) as I expected.

James Richardson Fletcher was son of Celia Fletcher, but no father and the Fletcher was crossed out and countersigned! Celia had moved on from the house by the 1861 census.

So, next task is to work out who James Richardson Fletcher's father was, but trying to work out if it is the same James as the second James in William & Elizabeth's family...

Hi Gideon,

I would get the birth cert for James Richardson FLETCHER all the same.

I think you will find that his mother was Celia FLETCHER. She seems to have married a Peter TOOLEY in 1850. I don't see a death for her but Peter marries again as a bachelor in 1862. So...Celia wasn't really free to marry William Richardson.

Not certain what you mean when you say "The census records have the same mother throughout (Eliz.)".?

Maureen

Hello Gideon, I've looked at those pages on the marriage register. The curate or whoever was undertaking those duties would have completed the details re: names, residence, occupation etc and the bride, groom and witnesses would have signed the page (except where they made their mark if illiterate).

Looking at the 4 entries on those pages the signatures don't appear to be the same handwriting as that filling in the details.

James Fletcher Richardson m. Charlotte Beckett 1879
The handwriting on the marriage cert is consistent for every entry, so i wonder if the registrar filled in everything and the witness sinatures were not their real signatures.

@MaureeninNY:
"Births Sep 1859
FLETCHER James Richardson Whitechapel 1c 341"

This date matches the one my mother wrote down in her notes...

However, he had older siblings, so it seems odd to be down as FLETCHER.
The census records have the same mother throughout (Eliz.)

<3 :-D
Thank you, MC!!!

Mo

Maureen, they are definitely the same signatures.

It's helped by the fact that Charlotte Huckle had been a bit too keen to sign her new name on the register so had signed as Richardson.

No doubt at all about William's.