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You're very welcome Jany, pleased the info has been useful.

Margee,MarieCeleste and mgnv
Thank you all so much for the information you have added..
Myra and John had several children, Bob, Mary,Elsie and Jeanne who you put on here were among them.Thank you for the info re their deaths.
I did wonder why John and Myra went off to Canada so quickly after they married.
Seemed very strange as Myra's mother Sarah was a widow who Myra had previously been living with.(father Harry Collings was deceased)
I didn't know much abour John at all,other than he was son of Robert and Letitia from Glasgow.It all makes sense now.
I will have to re read everything you have added.. Once again thank you very much

Yes, we're like the Duracell bunnies!

(Note - other brands of battery are available ;-) )

We're never "done & dusted", MC! We just keep going & going...

Good idea Margee - she might have thought we were all done and dusted.

I have sent a pm to Jany suggesting that she return to the thread.

Follow up on Margee's and my last posts:
First Name:LETITIA
Last Name:HAGGART
Birth Year:1865
Age:36
Birth Town:GLASGOW
Birth County:LANARK
Birth Place:
Relationship:INMATE
Gender:F
Occupation:HOUSEWIFE DOMESTIC FORMERLY
Condition:MARRIED

1901 Scotland Census Transcription
First Name:JOHN
Last Name:HAGGART
Birth Year:1897
Age:4
Birth Town:GLASGOW
Birth County:LANARK
Birth Place:
Relationship:INMATE
Gender:M
Occupation:
Condition:
Street:
Parish:GLASGOW
Town:
City:
County:Lanarkshire
Country:SCOTLAND
Ecclesiastical District:BARONY
Enumeration District:
Municipal Ward:
Parliamentary Borough:ST ROLLOX
Registration District:ST ROLLOX

I get an almost identical hit for:
First Name:ROBT LESLIE
Last Name:HAGGART
Birth Year:1899
Age:2

The mid-name convinces me he's John's bro.

Yes, I agree he was a home child. On the 1901 Scotland census his mother Letitia, 36 and John , 4 were in the poorhouse. Then there's this listing:

Home Children (1869-1930)
Item Display
Return to results | Search | Search HelpSurname: HAGGARTGiven Name: JohnAge: 11Sex: MShip: SicilianYear of Arrival: 1907Departure Port: GlasgowDeparture Date: 1907-03-30Arrival Port: HalifaxArrival Date: 1907-04-12Party: Quarrier's Orphan Homes of ScotlandDestination: Brockville, OntarioComments: See also reels T-525 and C-4709Source: Library and Archives CanadaReference: RG 76 C1bMicrofilm: T-502Type of Record: Passenger ListsGroup of Children Traveling TogetherSuggest a Correction

And Robert the next year:

Home Children (1869-1930)
Item Display
Return to results | Search | Search HelpSurname: HAGGARTGiven Name: RobertAge: 9Sex: MShip: GrampianYear of Arrival: 1908Departure Port: GlasgowDeparture Date: 1908-04-04Arrival Port: HalifaxArrival Date: 1908-04-14Party: Quarrier's Orphan Homes of ScotlandDestination: Brockville, OntarioComments: Scottish childrenSource: Library and Archives CanadaReference: RG 76 C1bMicrofilm: T-503Type of Record: Passenger ListsGroup of Children Traveling TogetherSuggest a Correction

MC - Yes. His attestation papers are stamped 1st brigade CFA. This consisted of the 1st, 3rd and 4th Field Batteries and the 2nd Howitzer Battery. It was part of the Canadian 1st division, the first CEF div to arrive in France. You'ld need his service record to see which battery he was in, and it's not online yet. The search help link at:
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/cef/001042-100.01-e.php
tells you how to order a service record. The cost is the same for a photocopy or a digital copy. What's nice is that, for the past couple of years, whenever someone orders a digital copy, LAC will put it online so everyone will benefit.
The search help link also gives a link to the units war diaries, so if I enter 1st brigade artillery or 1st battery, then pick the CFA hit, I can read what the unit was doing on a day to day basis. It's really quite interesting - well, I think so.

Also relevant here is:
http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/his/oh-ho/detail-eng.asp?BfBookLang=1&BfId=22
Author: Nicholson, G.W.L
Official History of the Canadian Army in the First World War: Candian Expeditionary Force, 1914-1919

Looks like we're thinking along the same lines mgnv!

The marriage record that Jan posted above was an allegation which I think must be similar to banns?

This is the actual marriage record:

Parish Record Collection - Marriage Record

Groom's First names: John Leslie
Groom's surname: Haggart
Groom's parish:
Groom's Age: 22
Marriage year: 1919
Marriage month: Jun
Marriage day: 09
Parish: St Stephen, Rochester Row
County: Middlesex
Bride's First names: Myra Victoria
Bride's surname: Collings
Bride's parish:
Bride's Age: 21
Record source: Westminster Marriages- Transcripts
Data provider: Westminster Archives

John Leslie was a Gunner Canadian Artillery and his father was Robert (deceased) a labourer.

Myra's father was Harry William Collings, a police constable.

Neither had been married before and both give their address as 71 Coburg Buildings.

Witnesses: Henry David Johnstone and Helena May Matilda Collings

So he had been in Canada previously.

Note In 1919 Myra says she's bound for Ottawa

On the same ship, on a page headed Military:
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e145/e003606115.jpg

There's another listing of the same names in the ship's passenger list at:
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e145/e003606150.jpg
The resolution's too low - you really need the Ancestry image to see it properly, however I can make out his serial # as 40816

You can look him up at:
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/cef/001042-100.01-e.php
and get images of his attestation papers. His dob=27/4/18?? pob=Glasgow - he attested 21/9/1914 at Valcartier, 25km N of Quebec City


1911 Census of Canada
Home / 1911 / Ontario / Carleton / 6 Goulburn / page 7-8
50 77 Sample George M Head S Jun 1885 26
1 77 Sample Esibell F Mother W May 1843 68
2 77 Haggart John M Adopted S Apr 1898 13
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1911/pdf/e001981389.pdf
[addy=Lot 16 Concession 5, Goulbourn Twp, Carleton Co Ont]
Richmond is 25km SW of Ottawa - the farm is abt 3km W of Richmond


There is a concession map at:
http://digital.library.mcgill.ca/Countyatlas/SearchMapframes.php
Note the SE-NW orientation of the W edge of Carleton Co, as there's no compass roses as I drill down to:
http://digital.library.mcgill.ca/Countyatlas/images/maps/townshipmaps/car-m-goulbourn.jpg


Surname: HAGGART
Given Name: John
Age: 11
Sex: M
Ship: Sicilian
Year of Arrival: 1907
Departure Port: Glasgow
Departure Date: 1907-03-30
Arrival Port: Halifax
Arrival Date: 1907-04-12
Party: Quarrier's Orphan Homes of Scotland
Destination: Brockville, Ontario
Comments: See also reels T-525 and C-4709
Source: Library and Archives Canada
Reference: RG 76 C1b
Microfilm: T-502
Type of Record: Passenger Lists
Group of Children Traveling Together

http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e148/e003699595.jpg


This looks like it could be his bro:

Surname: HAGGART
Given Name: Robert
Age: 9
Sex: M
Ship: Grampian
Year of Arrival: 1908
Departure Port: Glasgow
Departure Date: 1908-04-04
Arrival Port: Halifax
Arrival Date: 1908-04-14
Party: Quarrier's Orphan Homes of Scotland
Destination: Brockville, Ontario
Comments: Scottish children
Source: Library and Archives Canada
Reference: RG 76 C1b
Microfilm: T-503
Type of Record: Passenger Lists
Group of Children Traveling Together

http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e149/e003700348.jpg


1911 Census of Canada
Home / 1911 / Ontario / Carleton / 20 March / page 5
24 40 Bourcher Dan M Head M May 1876 35 1901
25 40 Bourcher Lila E. F Wife M Apr 1888 23 1901
26 40 Milford Winifred F Domestic S Apr 1894 17 1901
27 40 Hogan Henry M Hand Man S May 1866 45 1901
28 40 Haggart Robt M Help S May 1900 11 1901
[There is a correction note on transcription, saying name s.b. Boucher, like the image says]
[addy=Lot 25 Conc 3, March Twp, Carleton Co Ont]
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1911/pdf/e001981533.pdf

Dunrobin used to be in Torbolton Twp, but now straddles into March Twp.
From Dunrobin, go SE 0.5+ miles, and the Boucher lot is to your right.
Around here, a standard full 200 acre lot is 20 x 100 chains (80chains=1 mile). Most farmers have a 100 scre half lot.


Getting back to the military side, John clearly lied abt his age, probably adding he didn't know what year he was born, so left it off his attestation.
In the early days, they took pretty much anyone, and, technically, it wasn't their actual age that counted, but their apparant age at their medical.
After the Somme, they clamped down on age, and under age Canadian soldiers in Europe were mostly sent back to Britain until they were 18 - those in Canada stayed there until they were 17 1/2, when they could be sent to the UK to finish off their training.


EDIT I left one page link off the 1911 - here's the missing URL, as you probably guessed:
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1911/pdf/e001981388.pdf

If John was already in Canada to become a soldier then could this be his first arrival?

Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935

Name: John Haggart
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1896
Date of Arrival: 12 Apr 1907
Vessel: Sicilian
Port of Arrival: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Port of Departure: Glasgow, Scotland and Moville, Ireland
Roll: T-502

It appears to be all children on the passenger list, born in Scotland or what looks like Quarter Homes.

They were all going to farms in Brockville, Ontario. I guess they were Home Children.

EDIT: It looks like there was more than one John Haggart born around the same time in Scotland who ended up in Canada according to attestation papers so this could possibly be a different one but thought the Brockville connection was coincidental.

Jany - do you have your John on the 1911 census in Scotland?

There seems to be some loose ends. As Margee points out, that 1919 arrival in Canada shows him as a returning Canadian soldier so he must have previously been in Canada.

That 1919 manifest shows the following info for him:

Regiment = CARD/CFA
NOK = wife
Religion = Pres.

The soldiers had all been at Buxton Depot, Derbyshire.

It seems like any wives from England went over to Canada with them on the same ship.

No full address given on here:

Canada, Voters Lists, 1935-1980
Name: Myra Haggart
Location: Grenville; Dundas, Ontario
Occupation: Housewife
Electoral District: Grenville-Dundas
Year: 1958

Also listed is an Elsie Haggart (an inspector) and a Jeanne Haggart (an assembler) all of Maitland.
..................................................................................................................

Canada, Voters Lists, 1935-1980

Name: Myra Haggart
Location: Leeds, Ontario
Occupation: Hw
Electoral District: Leeds
Year: 1972

Address 4 Brockville.

Listed at the same address is a David Haggart (Labourer). Different spelling but also at the same address Ronald Haggett (att'd) and Donna Haggett (rn).

Re Jonesey's post:
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e145/e003606128.jpg

A photo of John Leslie's gravestone here:

http://twgpp.org/information.php?id=2145782

Son Bob:

Bob Haggart


Tribute: Peacefully at the St. Vincent de Paul Hospital August 12th. 2004. Robert Seymour Haggart of Brockville, age 82 years. Beloved husband of the former Lorraine B. Stewart . Dear father of Robert (Bob) Haggart and his wife Diane of NewMarket and Patricia Haggart of Brockville. Grandfather of Melissa, Jennifer and Rachel. Brother of Rev. Mary Haggart of Saskatchewan, Elsie Stevens and her husband Cliff of Brockville, Margaret Anderson and her husband Arthur of Toronto and Jean Clifford and her husband Leonard of Brockville. Also survived by several nieces and nephews. Predeceased by a son Wayne, his parents John Leslie Haggart and his wife Myra Victoria Collins Haggart and 2 brothers John and George Haggart.
Friends may call at the Barclay Funeral Home, 137 Pearl St. East, Brockville Sunday August 15th. from 12 noon until 3 p.m. when funeral service will be held in the Chapel. Interment will follow at Bissell Cemetery. In memorians to the Leukemia Research Fund or the Canadian Cancer Society would be gratefully acknowledged by the family.

Your John?

In memory of
Company Quarter Master Sergeant


JOHN LESLIE HAGGART
who died on June 19, 1947

Military Service:
Service Number: C/89514
Age: 50
Force: Army
Unit: Veterans Guard of Canada
Additional Information:
Son of Robert L. and Letitia Haggart, of Glasgow, Scotland. Husband of Myra V. Haggart, of Brockville.

Commemorated on Page 596External link, Opens in a new window of the Second World War Book of Remembrance.
Order a copy of this page.

Do you have photographs or personal memorabilia relating to JOHN LESLIE HAGGART that you want included in our photo collection?

Send us your photos

Burial Information:
Cemetery: BROCKVILLE (OAKLAND) CEMETERY Ontario,Canada
Grave Reference: Veterans' Plot. Row 2. Grave 7.