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Jane's marriage...she says she was 20 in 1901 which would explain why she isn't on 1881 census maybe

Name: John Henry Cheetham
Birth Year: abt 1882
Age: 19
Marriage Date: 21 Dec 1901
Parish: Heaton Norris, All Saints
Parish as it Appears: Heaton Norris, All Saints
Father's Name: Harry Cheetham
Spouse's Name: John Turner
Spouse's Father's Name: James Turner
Reference Number: GB127.L209/1/2/1

This is what's on there...

Name: Martha Turner
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Jas. Turner
Gender: Female
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Bradford
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 12 Adelaide St.
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status:

View Image
Registration District: Prestwich
Sub-registration District: Newton
ED, institution, or vessel: 33
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4017
Folio: 18
Page Number: 30
Household Members:
Name Age
Jas. Turner 26
Martha Turner 27
Jos. Hy. Turner 4
Thomas Turner 1
View
Original
Record

View original image

No Jane....

Has that tree got the 1881 census, as should have daughter Jane, with mother Martha Ann and father Charles or James, as marriage was 1873?

The tree I am looking at follows brother Charles and everything says "James" except that 1891 census!

That's the 1891 census the tree on Ancestry has...interesting!

Dipalma doesn't sound very English and can't find her anywhere before her marriage :-)

Is this Joseph in 1891, his father is Charles, though, but Charles was born in France.

1891 England Census
Joseph Turner Age: 9 Months Estimated Birth Year: abt 1890
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Charles Turner
Gender: Male Where born: Stockport, Cheshire, England
Civil Parish: Beswick Ecclesiastical parish: Berwick St Mary
County/Island: Lancashire Country: England
Registration District: Prestwich Sub-registration District: Newton
ED, institution, or vessel: 41
Piece: 3259 Folio: 45 Page Number: 32
Charles Turner 44
Martha Ann Turner 40
Jane Turner 15
Joshua Turner 9
Charles Turner 7
Joseph Turner 9 Months
Joshua Foster 50 brolaw
Mary Foster 50
Ellen Foster 1
William Rogers 40
Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 3259; Folio: 45; Page: 32; GSU Roll: 6098369.

If no Joseph in 1911. did he meet her abroad?

But as he was a barman when married, does not seem particularly likely.

Interesting that her father is 'retired'.

There are several trees on Ancestry that have James married to Martha Foster and children matching Jane and Joseph. This is Jane in 1911

Name: John Henry Cheetham
Age in 1911: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Stockport, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Stockport
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street Address: 29 Higher Bridge St Heaton Norris Stockport
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Finisher Bassinett Works
Registration District: Stockport
Registration District Number: 443
Sub-registration District: Stockport Third
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Piece: 21405
Household Members:
Name Age
John Henry Cheetham 29
Jane Cheetham 29
Harry Cheetham 9
May Cheetham 6
Annie Cheetham 3
Martha Cheetham 1

Using those trees can find this 1901 census that could be "our" Joseph

Name: James Turner
Age: 48
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: North Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: Beswick and Bradford Christchurch
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View Image
Registration District: Prestwich
Sub-registration District: Newton
ED, institution, or vessel: 34
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 216
Piece: 3762
Folio: 49
Page Number: 36
Household Members:
Name Age
William Foster 46
Sarah Foster 45
Sarah Foster 15
James Turner 48
Joshua Turner 16
Charles Turner 14
Joseph Turner 12

This fits with other children

BUT I can't find Joseph in 1911 nor Elsie ever

Well done :-D

Can anyone find them on census ? I Can't see them !!


It says on Marriage that Joseph lived at 49 and Elsie at 78 Bangor Street But I can't see them there on 1911 census


Wittness John Henry Cheetham and Jane Cheetham

It looks as if Jane was Joseph Turner's sister

Marriages Dec 1901 (>99%)
CARTER Maria Stockport 8a 31
>>>>CHEETHAM John Henry Stockport 8a 31
PRICE Walter Stockport 8a 31
>>>>>TURNER Jane Stockport 8a 31


Barbara x

Name: Elsie Dipalma
Birth Year: abt 1888
Age: 25
Marriage Date: 4 Oct 1913
Parish: Reddish, St Mary
Parish as it Appears: Heaton Reddish
Father's Name: Charles Dipalma.........Retired
Spouse's Name: Joseph Turner..............Barman
Spouse's Father's Name: James Turner........Labourer
Reference Number: L165/1/2/4
Item Number: 2
Archive Roll: 979

Just to add, Cheshire free bmd has the marriage as:
DIPALINA Elsie TURNER Joseph 1913 Heaton Reddish, St Mary Stockport Cheshire ST8/4/149

I too found that marriage and wondered about it.......but blowed if I could find a birth for the union..Well done Barbara.


I would certainly have to follow that one up if it was my family...Looks too good not to..
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Yes, Jude,thats what I was thinking !! And I can't find anything else for Elsie either. No birth index that I can see. Nothing on 1911 census --looked for passengers coming in and can't see anything.

There are a few De Palma , all sorts of spellings for this name, in census however not finding an Elsie, and mostly London way on.

Barbara x

Harvey,
Do you know when and where Elsie and Joe died?
Thanks

Wow Barbara...

If this was my family I'd be thinking this wasn't an adoption :-)

I have been looking at that marriage, Jude, And then there is this birth --not sure if the 2 "Go together" but you never know !!! ( the original image for this birth is very poor and hard to read)

Births Mar 1916 (>99%)

Turner Hilda Bipalma Chorlton 8c 1308


Barbara x

The only marriage for Joseph and Elsie I can find is in 1913 and her name is Depalma/Dipalma. And I cannot find anything else on the Deplama family

Looking at that birth that Reggie posted as being the most likely in Lancs. I wonder if these were the parents?

Marriages Jun 1915 (>99%)

Parker Emma Walton Burnley 8e 445
Walton Harry S Parker Burnley 8e 445

It could be worth checking if Emma Parker as the mother of a Hilda Elizabeth remarried or died, It seems possible that Harry S Walton is this one

Births Jun 1884 (>99%)
Walton Harry Stodart Burnley 8e 310

who may be this death in WW1, thus leaving Emma alone with a child?

WALTON, HARRY STUTTARD Private 26644 02/08/1917 Grenadier Guards United Kingdom Panel 9 and 11. YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL

It's a very long shot that Joe or Elsie Turner was in some way related?

I did assume she was adopted informally prior to 1930 as the adoption act was not passed till 1927 my mother died in 1964 before I was interested in geneology and weas not aware my mother had been adopted Joe & Elsie turner had no other children Harvey

This was brought to my attention simply because of your Surname Harvey....I too am one of those but a West Country one...So no relation as far as I can see unless its back in the mists of time.

I also note that no one has made the suggestion that maybe she was adopted informally as a baby and when it became legal to adopt in 1927?they then applied to do so..
Did they have her from infancy and give her the name Hilda Elizabeth themselves?
What do you know of Joe and Elsie please?Can you give everything you do know....Also take into account your mother was a "war"baby and could have been born anywhere if illegit to cover her mothers shame.
And you CAN get her original birth cert if you know her birth name and place as I have done so for a friend of mine with her mother who had passed away..
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