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checked wharf street in Birmingham and Ashton but they are not there

Maddie, probably not relevant but just out of curiosity, have you found who was at number 10? I like to be nosy you know!
Jan :-D

Is it possible that William was married twice, both times to an Emma?
Could this be the family in 1861?
Coleshill Street, Bishop Ryders RG909/20/3/2147.
William Davis b 1816
Emma Davis b 1824
Ann Maria 1845
George 1852
Sarah Ann 1854
Eliza 1856
John 1857
Henry (?Harry) 1860
Frederick 1861.
There is quite a gap between Ann Maria & George unless there were other children who didn´t survive. Thinking that perhaps the Emma who was Frederick´s mother was wife no. 2.......or perhaps they weren´t actually married.

here goes
no 10 15 court
120 KILBY, John Head Married M 32 1829 ...Beawer
..., Oxfordshire

132 WITHINS, Sarah Head Widow F 67 1794 Laundress
Birmingham, Warwickshire VIEW
132 COOPER, Lucy Daughter Married F 34 1827 Button Mker
Birmingham, Warwickshire VIEW
132 COOPER, Charles Son In Law Married M 30 1831 Labourer
Birmingham, Warwickshire VIEW
132 THORLEY, Harriet Granddaughter Unmarried F 18 1843 Steel Pen Maker
Birmingham, Warwickshire VIEW
132 THORLEY, Emma Granddaughter F 12 1849 Scholar
Birmingham, Warwickshire VIEW
132 BATES, Elizabeth Lodger Unmarried F 23 1838 Steel Pen Maker
Stonebridge, Worcestershire VIEW

RG number: RG09

Piece: 2138

Folio: 94

Page: 25

Sub District: 2 St Thomas

Enumeration District: 27

Ecclesiastical Parish: St Thomas

Municipal Borough: Birmingham

Address: 10, 16 Court, Wharf Street, Birmingham

County: Warwickshire


144 MERIDITH, John Head Married M 33 1828 Wheelwright
Birmingham, Warwickshire VIEW
144 MERIDITH, Ann S Wife Married F 32 1829
Alvechurch, Worcestershire VIEW
144 MERIDITH, Alice A Daughter F 8 1853 Scholar
Birmingham, Warwickshire VIEW
144 MERIDITH, Elizabeth Daughter F 6 1855 Scholar
Birmingham, Warwickshire VIEW
144 MERIDITH, Mary Ann Daughter F 1 1860
Birmingham, Warwickshire VIEW

RG number: RG09

Piece: 2138

Folio: 95

Page: 28

Sub District: 2 St Thomas

Enumeration District: 27

Ecclesiastical Parish: St Thomas

Municipal Borough: Birmingham

Address: 10, 17 Court, Wharf Street, Birmingham


50 SUCKLING, William Head Married M 52 1809 Carter
Maxstoke, Warwickshire VIEW
50 SUCKLING, Mary Wife Married F 35 1826 Charwoman
Coundon, Warwickshire VIEW

RG number: RG09

Piece: 2138

Folio: 86

Page: 10

Sub District: 2 St Thomas

Enumeration District: 27

Ecclesiastical Parish: St Thomas

Municipal Borough: Birmingham

Address: 10, 7 Court, Wharf Street, Birmingham

County: Warwickshire


1 SPENCER, Thomas Head Married M 32 1829 Parker Nail...
Astley, Warwickshire VIEW
61 SPENCER, Emma Wife Married F 33 1828
Wolverhampton, Staffordshire VIEW
61 SPENCER, Emma Daughter F 10 1851 Scholar
Birmingham, Warwickshire VIEW
61 SPENCER, Thomas Son M 7 1854 Scholar
Birmingham, Warwickshire VIEW
61 SPENCER, Henry Son M 2 1859
Birmingham, Warwickshire VIEW

RG number: RG09

Piece: 2138

Folio: 87

Page: 12

Sub District: 2 St Thomas

Enumeration District: 27

Ecclesiastical Parish: St Thomas

Municipal Borough: Birmingham

Address: 10, 8 Court,

16 ALLEN, Job Head Married M 35 1826 House Painter
Lutton, Warwickshire VIEW
16 ALLEN, Ann Wife Married F 32 1829
..., Worcestershire VIEW
16 ALLEN, Mary Ann Daughter F 7 1854 Scholar
Birmingham, Warwickshire VIEW
16 ALLEN, Thomas Son M 2 1859
Birmingham, Warwickshire VIEW
16 ALLEN, Samuel Son M 1 1860
Birmingham, Warwickshire VIEW

RG number: RG09

Piece: 2138

Folio: 83

Page: 3

Sub District: 2 St Thomas

Enumeration District: 27

Ecclesiastical Parish: St Thomas

Municipal Borough: Birmingham

Address: 10, Wharf Street, Birmingham

County: Warwickshire


25 THURMAN, Joseph Head Married M 29 1832 Bricklayer
Leicester VIEW
25 THURMAN, Elizabeth Wife Married F 23 1838
Groly, Gloucestershire VIEW
25 THURMAN, Mary Daughter F 1 1860
Aston Birmingham VIEW

RG number: RG09

Piece: 2176

Folio: 6

Page: 6

Sub District: 2 Duddeston

Enumeration District: 7

Ecclesiastical Parish: St James

Municipal Borough: Birmingham

Address: 10, Banks Building, Wharf Street, Aston, Birmingham

County: Warwickshire


188 WILLIAMS, John Head Married M 32 1829 Common Labourer
Woodcott, Shropshire VIEW
188 WILLIAMS, Caroline Wife Married F 29 1832 Housewife
Swinstead, Lincolnshire VIEW
188 WILLIAMS, George Son M 9 1852 Scholar
Birmingham, Warwickshire VIEW
188 WILLIAMS, Emma Daughter F 3 1858
Birmingham, Warwickshire VIEW
188 WILLIAMS, William Son M 2 1859
Birmingham, Warwickshire VIEW
188 WILLIAMS, Isaac Son M 0 1861
Birmingham, Warwickshire VIEW
189 BUGGINS, William Lodger Unmarried M 25 1836 Labourer In Coal Yard
Kings Norton, Worcestershire VIEW
190 HILL, William Lodger Unmarried M 21 1840 Labourer In Coal Yard
Uppingham, Rutlandshire VIEW
190 HILL, Thomas Lodger Unmarried M 22 1839 Labourer In Coal Yard
Uppingham, Rutlandshire VIEW

RG number: RG09

Piece: 2172

Folio: 72

Page: 31

Sub District: 1 Deritend

Enumeration District: 18

Ecclesiastical Parish:

Municipal Borough: Birmingham

Address: 10, Wharf Street, Aston, Birmingham

County: Warwickshire

maddie

Thank you Maddie. No joy there as you say - what a pity.
I don't suppose 1851......??!
Jan :-D

1851 wharf street
108 ORBELL, John Thomas Head Married M 42 1809 Policeman Birmingham, Warwickshire VIEW
108 ORBELL, Mary Wife Married F 33 1818 Sutton, Warwickshire VIEW
108 ORBELL, Thomas Son M 12 1839 Birmingham, Warwickshire VIEW
108 ORBELL, Alfred Son M 10 1841 Birmingham, Warwickshire VIEW
108 ORBELL, John Son M 7 1844 Birmingham, Warwickshire VIEW
108 ORBELL, William Son M 5 1846 Birmingham, Warwickshire VIEW
108 ORBELL, Ann Sophia Daughter F 2 1849 Birmingham, Warwickshire VIEW
108 BUSWELL, Emma Lodger Unmarried F 21 1830 Dress Maker Stamford, Northamptonshire VIEW
108 HOLTON, Joseph Lodger Married M 31 1820 Carman Stockbury, Gloucestershire VIEW
108 HOLTON, Martha Lodger Married F 25 1826 Birmingham, Warwickshire VIEW
108 HOLTON, Joseph Lodger M 4 1847 Birmingham, Warwickshire VIEW

RG number: HO107

Piece: 2052

Folio: 147

Page: 27

Sub District: Saint Thomas

Enumeration District: 6

Ecclesiastical Parish:

Municipal Borough: Birmingham

Address: 10, Wharf Street, Saint Thomas Birmingham, Birmingham

County: Warwickshire


no number 10 in Ashton

Maddie

Thanks Maddie. Worth a try!

On a different tack, I see in 1871 Emma herself is an iron spoon 'tinner'??. Maybe where purported father's occupation came from!
Anyway, it might be worth checking this out. I suggest it because Sarah and James are both spoon 'tinners' (still can't make it out, but looks like the same word as 1871). And there is a brother Abraham as you can see.

1841 England Census
Name: Emma Davis
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1835
Gender: Female
Where born: Warwickshire, England

Civil Parish: Birmingham
Hundred: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Registration District: Birmingham
Sub-registration District: All Saints

Sarah Davis 40
Sarah Davis 15
James Davis 70 (says 10)
Eliza Davis 8
Emma Davis 6
Abraham Davis 4

Suspect it's a red herring but putting what looks like the same family 1851. However, although the Emma 1861 is fairly likely to be the same person, given the occupation, as there is no child with her I am reluctant to say she is yours:

1851 England Census
Name: Emma Davis
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1834
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Seab Davis
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Birmghm, Warwickshire, England

Civil Parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical parish: Bishop Ryder

Registration District: Birmingham
Sub-registration District: St Mary

Seab Davis 53 spoon maker
Eliza Davis 20 steel pen maker
Emma Davis 17 "
Abraham Davis 15 "


1861 England Census
Name: Emma Davis (spoon maker)
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Female
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Civil Parish: Aston
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Registration District: Aston
Sub-registration District: Deritend

Mary Ann Chrockt 45
Emma Davis 25
Henry Moore 22
John Richard 21
Richard Hard 67

Thanks again Brummiejan, Maddie and Wisechild for looking these things up.

I have been away and just returned to read these interesting emails about my relatives.

With the names of the people given on the 1861 census I have been able to look up on Ancestry the pages for Wharf St.
On page 4 of 42, No 9 Wharf St there is an Emma Davis age 13 and I think this must be her as it is only one house away from the address given on the birth certificate for Harry Edward Davis in 1860.
If the age is correct she had a child at the age of 12!! Not sure where the child Harry is but probably looked after by someone else.

I need to check the family relationship as she is described as a niece of Jane Farebrother.

Will try to do this later today as I need to go out now. Thanks for all your help I will check out the other references to Emma.
Best wishes
David

full census reference: Address: 10, Wharf Street, Birmingham
RG number: RG09
Piece: 2138, Folio: 83,
Sub District: 2 St Thomas
Enumeration District: 27
Ecclesiastical Parish: St Thomas
Municipal Borough: Birmingham

Hi David.
I see what you mean about that 1861 census. Fingers crossed you can find further info on Jane Farebrother.
In desperation I looked for a nurse child surname Davis in St. Thomas area, and interestingly there is a Mary Davies aged 2 at 11 Wharf St. - but would have to be a monumental error wouldn't it!!
Best of luck.
Jan

Could easily be a monumental mistranscription Jan.
Mary & Harry could easily be mistranscribed.
I recently found, after more than 20 years of searching, my ggggrandfather Walter How transcribed as Wattie Haw.
I had had him dead since before the 1841 census, whereas he & his wife were both still alive in 1851. Still, at least I know now.

Wisechild, that's an interesting point. I suppose mis-hearing 'Harry' as 'Mary' might be possible, though the child is clearly recorded as a girl. Very tempting though given the address.
We may never know!
Jan

Not necessarily a mistake by the enumerator Jan. More likely by the person doing the transcription.but where there are several children in the family it would have been easy to enter a boy as a girl. I´ve seen instances where a sister has been entered as a daughter even though she is several years older than the head of hoiusehold.
I think the enumerators were sometimes very little more literate than the people whose data they were entering.......or just totally disinterested.

HollidayStreet is Birmingham b1 siuated at the bottom of Gas Street that it self leads off Broad Street

1841

Name: Jane Fairbrother
Age: 55
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1786
Gender: Female

Civil Parish: St Thomas
Hundred: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

View Image

Registration District: Birmingham
Sub-registration District: St Thomas
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1147
Book: 3
Folio: 10
Page Number: 13
Household Members:
Name Age
Wilm Fairbrother 55
Jane Fairbrother 55

1851

Name: Jane Fairbrother
Age: 65
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1786
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William Fairbrother
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Bridgnorth, Shropshire, England

Civil Parish: Birmingham St Thomas
Town: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View Image

Registration District: Birmingham
Sub-registration District: St Thomas
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 95
Piece: 2052
Folio: 122
Page Number: 25
Household Members:
Name Age
William Fairbrother 64 Master shoemaker b. Lichfield, Staffs
Jane Fairbrother 65

Most of the houses in Wharf St/Gas St/HollidaySt/Granville St/ William St etc were courts rather than back to backs. They ran close to the canal basin & are now mostly covered by Trident Housing Association properties, a multiplex cinema & University Halls of Residence which were converted from the old Accident hospital.

Hi
I looked up the Fairbrothers for the 1841/51 census but they didn't have any relatives as shown by rootgatherer (thanks again for looking this up. Their are a number of trees with William and Jane and I have written to the owners to see if they have more detail.

Wisechild - are there any online maps for the streets mentioned and for the Aston Manor areas?

Best wishes
David

Don´t know about on line maps David.
I only know that because I used to live in a flat in William Street & our estate office was in Holliday Street.
There are certainly some excellent maps of the area in the library, but of course they are not available until September.
You could try googling parish maps for St Thomas area 1860 & see what comes up, or you could join the Birmingham History Forum. It´s free to join & as the name suggests, it is for people who are interested in the history of Birmingham, though not really for genealogy. There are some really knowledgeable & helpful members.