Find Ancestors

Have responded to a pm from Nathan (Ingrid) .
Absolutely brilliant find. We were beginning to think they never married which would have been unthinkable in the Jewish community.
Will pass the info & links to my friend whose grandparents they were.
Thanks to everyone for all the help.
Marion

Welcome to the boards Nathan. What a good find, certainly looks like the correct marriage, right father for Millie, and living Cleethorpe Road!

Looks like youve cracked it! :-D

I just spotted this post - in assist with the original enquiry re John Marks Forster.

He married a Margaret (Maggie) Cohen (a relative of my Grandmother Tena Wood) in Grimsby on 3rd August 1892. See link below

http://www.jewishgen.org/jcr-uk/Community/Gr/marriage.htm

He was named John Max Fosster in this entry - probably a mistake??

Note also that Caistor is a village a short distance from Grimsby but was the registration district for that part of teh county and did not imply that they lived there i.e. wedding in Grimsby Synagogue.

Hope this helps

Nathan Blau

:-)

I've read somewhere on Nat Archives site, their naturalization records don't start early enough for Ben's - they also say many people claimed to be naturalized on census returns but weren't.

Well, unless you have any luck with the Jewish links for the marriage - or the wills (although not sure what they will give) I think the only other avenue will be John's naturalization papers. If you check out the website there may be some way you can order a copy, I never checked as I knew they were not available to order on-line.

You.ve done it again Flip.
I would probably never have found that.
Thanks.

Found them, and son Solomon (still single) in 1911 - ancestry has it mis-transcribed:

Benjamin Coben
Age in 1911: 65
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Russ, Poland
Civil parish: Great Grimsby
County/Island: Lincolnshire
Country: England
Street Address: 191a Cleethorpe Rd
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Tailor Emplyer
Registration district: Grimsby
Registration District Number: 422
Sub-registration district: Great Grimsby
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Piece: 19961
Household Members:
Name Age
Benjamin Coben 65
Yetta Coben 64
Soloncere Coben 42 (Solomon on image, born Hull)

They had been married 46 years, 6 children all still alive.

You're welcome.

Well Maggie was single according to 1891 census, so more likely he was married - I think you suggested earlier there were stories about a family left behind.

The 1871 census just says British subject, but the 1901 states naturalized - I can't see a record for this though. Have you found Benjamin or Yetta on the 1911 census, I don't seem to be able to find them. Although I think Yetta died 1920,and this is likely probate for Ben (age 85 at time of death.

Benjamin Cohen
Probate Date: 7 Dec 1931
Death Date: 29 Sep 1931
Death Place: Lincolnshire, England
Registry: Birmingham, England

Of 30 Park Drive, Grimsby - probate granted to Abraham Cohen, film renter. £105.

They had a son Abraham.

Thanks again Flip.
It was John & siblings who I think arrived sometime around 1880.
Can´t quite understand how Maggies parents can have been naturalised so soon after arrival. maybe they came here earlier & returned to Poland where Maggie was born. Seems a bit unlikely, but with this lot, anything could happen.
My theory is that either one or both of them had been married before & weren´t free to marry.
One day......... :-| :-| :-| :-|

Sorry, just realised I put the wrong date for their arrival in my earlier post. Maggie was born Poland c1868, but Solomon was born Hull (Q1/1870) so I should have said they arrived in England c1869.

The 1871 census shows both parents born Poland, but British subjects in brackets.

Can't help with your first question, think it may have been Tuesday?

The census note is just against his name, not hers, and as her parents stated on earlier census they were naturalized I don't think she would need to be (could be wrong though). If you do manage to get someone to check out the Nat Archives this is the record:

HO 334/42/16219 Description:
Naturalisation Certificate: John Marcks Forster. From Russia. Resident in Leeds. Certificate A16219 issued 11 August 1906.

Date: 1906Held by: The National Archives, KewLegal status: Public RecordLanguage: English

Flip. What day was it yesterday??? :-S
Thanks for all your help. It´s much appreciated.
I wonder whether she was included as a wife when John Marks was naturalised. There is a note in the end column of the 1911 census giving the year they were naturalised.
Taking the risk of offending the family, I can only conclude that they never actually married.
I agree that they must have arrived around 1880, but from where? & Cohen isn´t exactly an unusual name.
Think I´ll advise Sally to send for Maggie´s will & see if that sheds any light.

Marion, that is no excuse! :-D It comes to us all, I can't remember what I did yesterday at times.

Like everyone else, I can't see a marriage for them and doubt they actually married. But then again, it could be registered somewhere under their original names as I'm guessing Maggie Cohen was not her original name either.

Her family must have arrived in England around 1879 (her born Poland, brother Solomon in Hull), and her parents state naturalized on the census - so why did she need to be naturalized in 1906? Although I can't see her naturalization in 1906, I'm just accepting you have found it.

Crikey, so it has.
Apologies everyone. Have no recollection whatever of putting it up before, possibly because I went off at a tangent & looked at Percy.
However we´re still no nearer to finding the original couple.
Thanks everyone for trying & humble apologies.
Blame old age & senility.

Hasn't this been looked at before?

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1322044

Andy

Sally, the granddaughter of John & Maggie/Millie reckons there are lots of family secrets to be uncovered.
She is in her late 70s now, but remembers her grandparents & their siblings well.
She says nothing would surprise her.(Except to find that her grandparents weren´t married, mainly because he was a pillar of the Jewish community in Leeds). Mind you, as we all know, there´s nothing unusual about that scenario. We´ve all got ém somewhere along the line..
Will suggest she gets someone to view the naturalisation papers. We´re in Spain, but she does have family in England still.

I've found some eastern Europe immigrants coming in via Antwerp in the past (on familysearch) - but it's difficult to trace them with no original name. Many naturalisation records state the original name as well as the anglisised name, but his doesn't appear to - unless it is in the detail rather than the title, but it can only be viewed at Nat Archives, not available on-line.

Strangely, Max dropped the Max and was just Samuel by 1911 and claimed to be born in London.

She had probably been to visit her brother Percy & his wife in Buenas Aires. Percy was an international correspondant in Argentina & quite well known.
We had wondered whether the Polish name of John Marks could have been Marckowitch. That doesn´t explain where the Forster came from, but there are a number of apparently unrelated Marks/ Marckowitches in Leeds.
Think they must have come to England around 1885

I think she was still at the same address in 1950 - it's on the passenger record going to and back from Argentina.

Ray Lily Forster
Gender: Female
Age: 53
Birth Date: abt 1897
Departure Date: 6 Jan 1950
Port of Departure: London, England
Destination Port: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Ship Name: Argentina Star
Search Ship Database: Search the 'Argentina Star' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: Blue Star Line
Master: E R Pearce

She returned 4/6/1950 - though no details of why she went.

I can't see a probate for John either, but interestingly on the nat.archives site his naturalisation spells his middle name Marcks.

Hi Flip.
Thanks for that. Hadn´t seen the will although had looked for one for John Marks without success.
Hadn´t realised Auntie Ray was a spinster & the address may come in useful.
Many thanks for looking.
Marion

Didn't know if you had this, though no help in finding the marriage.

Maggie Forster
Probate Date: 24 Nov 1948
Death Date: 28 Aug 1946
Death Place: Leeds, England
Registry: London, England

Maggie,otherwise Millie, of 5 Westley-view Chapel Allerton,Leeds. Widow. Probate to Ray Lily Forster, spinster, £1855 5s 3d